Evil and Sin
Oct 14, 2014 11:56:20 GMT 10
Post by James on Oct 14, 2014 11:56:20 GMT 10
Friday, 3 October
Mary talking about our being Evil
So Mary, the most evil person is not say a Hitler or someone who commits the most heinous sexual abuse of children or something horrendous like that?
No, because that person still feels they are someone, someone able to do such bad things. They might deep within themselves believe they are a very bad despicable evil monster, and even the worst of the worst, but they are still someone - a bad despicable evil monster. So what I am talking about being the most evil is a woman, for it can only happen to a woman, because all men believe on some level they are superior to women because of Eve’s default, that she is such a bad nothing person that she is like a living dead person, someone with no will, no say, no good feelings about herself, not ego saying she is someone or something special even in a perverted or false way, nor does she have a talent or does anything she can take pride in and so feel she is someone, she is living the most or the closest to the annihilation of self one can live without ceasing to be, as close to self-oblivion, self-nothingness as the Rebellion and Default of Urantia allows. Which has been evolved over the duration of the Rebellion and is now coming to a head - for a woman to feel she is the most evil nothing - at the end of our age.
I understand what you’re saying, as that is how Marion feels so much about herself, that she is nothing, evil, despicable, of no account, meaningless, wonders why she exists, feels she has no point, is pointless, feels utterly unloved and unwanted even by herself.
So the most evil is not as we think it is, it’s not the person who can kill or damage the most people or do the most horrific things and control the most amount of people, it’s actually the person who feels the most blotted out by everyone else, the most lost and closed off and shut down, the most unloved.
I find it hard to describe this most evil state Mary. To say you feel like you are nothing, of no account, a meaningless person, you feel so unloved that you feel totally devastated, and you beg to die but can’t, you can’t take your own life as that would mean you still had too much power... so really it’s when you feel the most will-less, powerless, that’s what it’s about Mary, isn’t it?
Yes James, which I wanted you to get to yourself. All those other people, even those retarded, still have more will of self than these men and women I am talking about who feel so absolutely will-less. These will-less people are able to still function in the world, but only just. They are not reliant on others such as doctors and institutions to keep them propped up and so artificially self-willed, they are simply the bear bones of feeling like they have no will of their own, and in that deep unloved feeling, feeling so will-less and alone and destitute of all that constitutes the power of will that makes you feel you are something or someone; to feel you are no one and nothing, that is how they are, how they live.
Yes, I see what you mean. Mary, what about during the next age, will humanity continue to evolve its worst most evil, and its best people doing their healing?
The base is being put in James with the end of Jesus’ and my age. We represent perfection because we were perfect. So the most evil or imperfect one can become is to deny us the most, which can only occur through our age. With the next age, the Avonal age, people will only be able to deny themselves to the equivalent of the opposite of Avonal perfection, and as the Avonals by order of soul creation are not as high as Jesus and myself, so people and mind spirits won’t be able to deny or be as evil as they could through our age. And by evil I mean as what we’re talking about, not as you perceive evil by being able to do the most evil deeds inflicting the greatest amount of pain. Because as I said, someone who can do that has a lot of will and feels very self-important, it takes a vast amount of superior belief, even if one believes they are inferior, to hurt another person, to project your pain and anger outwards, or even inwardly on yourself by committing suicide. So I repeat again such people are not the most evil; the most evil person is the most powerless, so could never do anything outwardly to hurt another person or creature or even themselves by taking their own life. They can only feel they have no will, no power whatsoever, and that is being the most negative, so evil, that you feel (which is actually only a belief) that you are the most unloving and untrue you can be.
So really how we define and see evil being the Hitlers, mass murders or insane psychos who rape and defile young children, is all wrong, like how we see everything; and with our focus on these people being the worst of the worst, we’re actually missing the point or truth of what being evil is really all about. So being the most evil is the most powerless, so feeling like you are being controlled and made to be powerless the most. Yes, I can see that even victims who feel in the bad situation they are subjected to, can still feel they have power even if they can’t use it in their powerless state. So you’re talking about someone who feels utterly powerless, so powerless they feel they are nothing and wonder why they exist when their existence is nothing, for no good reason, has no value, they are utterly worthless, don’t fit in, have no good feelings about themselves, and not even the power that can come from self-hate that might lead one to kill themselves.
That’s right James, the person who has denied their personality expression the most in this part of Creation, so feels the most will-less, the most powerless, and so the most disconnected from their soul, the source of light that empowers the will. So they can’t hurt themselves or others as that requires too much will, they can only be in their powerless, nothing, untrue meaningless existence, feeling so very bad about themselves and yet also unable to articulate or express any of how bad they do feel - it’s all mostly unconscious within them.
So in fact it’s not actually in the interests of the Evil Ones to subject everyone to the most evil we can be subjected too, because if we all felt so utterly powerless we’d not be able to do anything.
That’s right, so what they do is turn your minds against yourself so as to falsely empower you. So that’s what happens. Your parents by not truly loving you start the process of denying you so you feel powerless. But then they also say you can’t just be nothing, be feeling so nothing, useless and powerless, so they make you do and believe you are and will be something and someone, so make you use your mind to falsely empower yourselves.
And if they didn’t do that, and we didn’t try to gain any false power, we’d just wither away consumed in our nothingness.
Yes. And this nothing-ness is not to be confused with feeling like you are being annihilated, for to have that feeling, to have any feeling, means you have some power. So these most evil people feel they don’t even have any feelings - they believe they are feeling-less. They just ‘feel’ nothing - they are nothing, so they ‘feel’ there is nothing of them to be annihilated.
So like they are vacuous, empty, see through, not solid as such, sort of like they are not even real or not even here, not actually present. Not invisible although that’s part of it on the way down to the bottom of the pit, but if you feel you are invisible then you actually feel you are someone, just someone who is not visible. Yes, I see what you’re saying Mary, I have felt all these things when I’ve been the deepest in, and I guess the truest to, my powerlessness and so my most evil.
Yes, they feel they are NOTHING James, as you’ve felt. And all that feeling NOTHING makes them feel. And until they wake up to these ‘nothing feelings’ they feel, they don’t have any feelings - they may as well be zombies. And it’s all in their mind James, it’s all beliefs - they believe they don’t have any feelings, when in fact they have so many bad feelings which are so overwhelming, and they believe (wrongly) that they must block them all out, and so be devoid of feelings - so just NOTHING. Not even one bad feeling - NOTHING. So totally of mind - feeling-devoid.
So Mary, just to go back a bit, how we think someone who commits crimes and the worst deeds is the most evil you can be, is really more of a ploy to keep us away from focusing on the truth of evil, of even understanding what the most evil really is.
Yes, because such people who do such bad things are still significant people, and in a way, even important, even if it’s only to themselves. They have an impact - they are present, they are responding to their feelings, so have feelings - they feel them, even if they believe they are disconnected from them and don’t feel them. And within the context of false power, such transgressions against another require compensation which such people undergo; but actually truly being evil doesn’t accrue bad ‘karma’ as it were, it doesn’t require compensation as there’s nothing bad they’ve done to another, only to themselves being the most self-unloving one can be. You see James, in these ‘Hitler’ type evil people, bearing in mind you are all evil, they are actually being ‘loving’ of themselves. None of it is true love, it’s all false mind created love, but the act of taking out your pain on another is a perverted way of giving yourself love. You are effectively saying, I hate them, they are mean to me, they don’t love me; so you hurt them, fighting them off, making them feel bad, punishing them, saying: they are the bad one, not me, I am the good one, they are the evil one; not me, so I hate them and they should be got rid of, they should cease to be; not me, I am the good one, I should exist. So in a way you are ‘loving’ yourself, telling yourself you are good and not bad.
I see what you’re saying Mary. Whereas the truly evil person feeling so powerless and unloved does truly hate themselves, yet without gaining any sense of power from their self-hatred. They are not doing anything to try and gain love, love of themselves or from anyone or anything else.
Yes that’s right, so they don’t do anything that gives them false power, because there can be a false power in hate. These people just feel vacuous as in so empty and insignificant, so nothing, that there is no power, they don’t even use their self-loathing as a means of false power. It’s simply a state of no-love, so nothing. You exist, but really you aren’t - or that’s how you feel, like in a way that you don’t actually exist, and yet you are still eating, drinking, breathing, going to the toilet and even to work, and so on. Love is the state of ALL, to feel loved you feel the maximum that you exist. So you feel wanted by Creation, wanted by God, that you are Their child and so on. To feel completely unloved - so no love, is to feel the opposite of such good feelings, so all the bad and worst ones. And it’s even more than you feel you are a bad person and so should be exterminated, for in those feelings you still have some false power by feeling you are bad. It’s deeper than feeling bad, it’s feeling NOTHING, so NO FEELING. And to feel no feeling is the most negative or evil you can be, because the most feeling is the most love you can feel. Love is a feeling, NOTHING IS NO FEELING, so you can’t even say you FEEL NOTHING, for you just ARE NOTHING. And being ‘no feeling’ (for in actuality you can’t not feel feelings, you always are even when you shut them all out) you are no truth, because no feelings - no-truth, as truth can only come from feelings. And so being no-truth means you are no love - so you are evil.
Yes I understand more now Mary. So really the Greatest Evil would mean the very opposite to the Greatest Love, so it would mean no God, no soul... so yes, I see what you mean: on a personal level you’d feel you had no soul, no love, where NOTHING, so didn’t actually exist, as you were saying.
Yes, that you are not an important or significant and valuable part of Creation, and a loving child of loving Heavenly Parents. You’d feel the opposite. So if only evil were to exist, then that would mean they’d be no Creation, no Soul, no Mother and Father - no truth, no love. So really there is no point in Rebellion which all of you are to see, because then you’d all cease to be. You’d all be NOTHING. (And by Nothing I really mean it, and not some esoteric mental nonsense gymnastic that would try and argue or reason that in Nothing there is Everything. For of course there is always everything, your soul always exits, but your being NOTHING is in fact a state of mind I am talking about - an evil mind and will state. A negative state of no love as opposed to a positive state of love.)
The Lucifer’s wanted their own power, so rebelled against you and Jesus and the Mother and Father. I doubt the wanted to be NOTHING, as if they didn’t exist.
That’s right James, they didn’t understand what being truly evil means. So they developed the Doctrine of Freedom and Liberation which to their way of distorted thinking actually gave people, mind spirits and angels, more power than they had - ‘take all matters into your hands, rebel agains the powers that be’. All false power.
Well Mary thank you very much, that was terrific, and very important. I understand more now what evil really is and it’s helped to explain so much of Marion’s and my healing, all the bits we’ve been through, with times of feeling we are so nothing, and then at other times all the false power we’ve taken on and been made to have and believed it’s right to have. I now see really where our healing is taking us, into understanding what evil does feel like even though as you say it is beyond feelings. That evil is only a state of mind and not a true state of soul. That we’ve had evil imposed on us through the corruption of our minds. And all by making us move away from and deny our feelings. So this Nothing state is a mind state, possibly even an existential one of sorts, with no experience of feeling, at least no direct awareness of feeling-experience within it. It sure is a weird state or place to be in, fuck I have hated those feelings the most, as does Marion. And they are so hard to articulate. I’ve just felt stunned, shocked, traumatised - NOTHING, numb, frozen, so sort of like I’m in a state of suspended animation and yet at the same time so incredibly bad. Like I am just pain, but also NO PAIN. The pain of being Nothing! And yet I can see that to feel pain I am something and someone because I am feeling something. So it’s sort of beyond pain, but such a deep pain, possibly it is the true pain of our soul in our most evilness.
I’ll leave you to ponder that James. You’re getting tired so I will go now.
Thank you again Mary, I feel a bit speechless about all you’ve said, my mind has been turned around and feels now more squarely anchored in relating to understanding what true evil is.
I’ll speak to you soon James - goodnight.
Mary talking about our being Evil
So Mary, the most evil person is not say a Hitler or someone who commits the most heinous sexual abuse of children or something horrendous like that?
No, because that person still feels they are someone, someone able to do such bad things. They might deep within themselves believe they are a very bad despicable evil monster, and even the worst of the worst, but they are still someone - a bad despicable evil monster. So what I am talking about being the most evil is a woman, for it can only happen to a woman, because all men believe on some level they are superior to women because of Eve’s default, that she is such a bad nothing person that she is like a living dead person, someone with no will, no say, no good feelings about herself, not ego saying she is someone or something special even in a perverted or false way, nor does she have a talent or does anything she can take pride in and so feel she is someone, she is living the most or the closest to the annihilation of self one can live without ceasing to be, as close to self-oblivion, self-nothingness as the Rebellion and Default of Urantia allows. Which has been evolved over the duration of the Rebellion and is now coming to a head - for a woman to feel she is the most evil nothing - at the end of our age.
I understand what you’re saying, as that is how Marion feels so much about herself, that she is nothing, evil, despicable, of no account, meaningless, wonders why she exists, feels she has no point, is pointless, feels utterly unloved and unwanted even by herself.
So the most evil is not as we think it is, it’s not the person who can kill or damage the most people or do the most horrific things and control the most amount of people, it’s actually the person who feels the most blotted out by everyone else, the most lost and closed off and shut down, the most unloved.
I find it hard to describe this most evil state Mary. To say you feel like you are nothing, of no account, a meaningless person, you feel so unloved that you feel totally devastated, and you beg to die but can’t, you can’t take your own life as that would mean you still had too much power... so really it’s when you feel the most will-less, powerless, that’s what it’s about Mary, isn’t it?
Yes James, which I wanted you to get to yourself. All those other people, even those retarded, still have more will of self than these men and women I am talking about who feel so absolutely will-less. These will-less people are able to still function in the world, but only just. They are not reliant on others such as doctors and institutions to keep them propped up and so artificially self-willed, they are simply the bear bones of feeling like they have no will of their own, and in that deep unloved feeling, feeling so will-less and alone and destitute of all that constitutes the power of will that makes you feel you are something or someone; to feel you are no one and nothing, that is how they are, how they live.
Yes, I see what you mean. Mary, what about during the next age, will humanity continue to evolve its worst most evil, and its best people doing their healing?
The base is being put in James with the end of Jesus’ and my age. We represent perfection because we were perfect. So the most evil or imperfect one can become is to deny us the most, which can only occur through our age. With the next age, the Avonal age, people will only be able to deny themselves to the equivalent of the opposite of Avonal perfection, and as the Avonals by order of soul creation are not as high as Jesus and myself, so people and mind spirits won’t be able to deny or be as evil as they could through our age. And by evil I mean as what we’re talking about, not as you perceive evil by being able to do the most evil deeds inflicting the greatest amount of pain. Because as I said, someone who can do that has a lot of will and feels very self-important, it takes a vast amount of superior belief, even if one believes they are inferior, to hurt another person, to project your pain and anger outwards, or even inwardly on yourself by committing suicide. So I repeat again such people are not the most evil; the most evil person is the most powerless, so could never do anything outwardly to hurt another person or creature or even themselves by taking their own life. They can only feel they have no will, no power whatsoever, and that is being the most negative, so evil, that you feel (which is actually only a belief) that you are the most unloving and untrue you can be.
So really how we define and see evil being the Hitlers, mass murders or insane psychos who rape and defile young children, is all wrong, like how we see everything; and with our focus on these people being the worst of the worst, we’re actually missing the point or truth of what being evil is really all about. So being the most evil is the most powerless, so feeling like you are being controlled and made to be powerless the most. Yes, I can see that even victims who feel in the bad situation they are subjected to, can still feel they have power even if they can’t use it in their powerless state. So you’re talking about someone who feels utterly powerless, so powerless they feel they are nothing and wonder why they exist when their existence is nothing, for no good reason, has no value, they are utterly worthless, don’t fit in, have no good feelings about themselves, and not even the power that can come from self-hate that might lead one to kill themselves.
That’s right James, the person who has denied their personality expression the most in this part of Creation, so feels the most will-less, the most powerless, and so the most disconnected from their soul, the source of light that empowers the will. So they can’t hurt themselves or others as that requires too much will, they can only be in their powerless, nothing, untrue meaningless existence, feeling so very bad about themselves and yet also unable to articulate or express any of how bad they do feel - it’s all mostly unconscious within them.
So in fact it’s not actually in the interests of the Evil Ones to subject everyone to the most evil we can be subjected too, because if we all felt so utterly powerless we’d not be able to do anything.
That’s right, so what they do is turn your minds against yourself so as to falsely empower you. So that’s what happens. Your parents by not truly loving you start the process of denying you so you feel powerless. But then they also say you can’t just be nothing, be feeling so nothing, useless and powerless, so they make you do and believe you are and will be something and someone, so make you use your mind to falsely empower yourselves.
And if they didn’t do that, and we didn’t try to gain any false power, we’d just wither away consumed in our nothingness.
Yes. And this nothing-ness is not to be confused with feeling like you are being annihilated, for to have that feeling, to have any feeling, means you have some power. So these most evil people feel they don’t even have any feelings - they believe they are feeling-less. They just ‘feel’ nothing - they are nothing, so they ‘feel’ there is nothing of them to be annihilated.
So like they are vacuous, empty, see through, not solid as such, sort of like they are not even real or not even here, not actually present. Not invisible although that’s part of it on the way down to the bottom of the pit, but if you feel you are invisible then you actually feel you are someone, just someone who is not visible. Yes, I see what you’re saying Mary, I have felt all these things when I’ve been the deepest in, and I guess the truest to, my powerlessness and so my most evil.
Yes, they feel they are NOTHING James, as you’ve felt. And all that feeling NOTHING makes them feel. And until they wake up to these ‘nothing feelings’ they feel, they don’t have any feelings - they may as well be zombies. And it’s all in their mind James, it’s all beliefs - they believe they don’t have any feelings, when in fact they have so many bad feelings which are so overwhelming, and they believe (wrongly) that they must block them all out, and so be devoid of feelings - so just NOTHING. Not even one bad feeling - NOTHING. So totally of mind - feeling-devoid.
So Mary, just to go back a bit, how we think someone who commits crimes and the worst deeds is the most evil you can be, is really more of a ploy to keep us away from focusing on the truth of evil, of even understanding what the most evil really is.
Yes, because such people who do such bad things are still significant people, and in a way, even important, even if it’s only to themselves. They have an impact - they are present, they are responding to their feelings, so have feelings - they feel them, even if they believe they are disconnected from them and don’t feel them. And within the context of false power, such transgressions against another require compensation which such people undergo; but actually truly being evil doesn’t accrue bad ‘karma’ as it were, it doesn’t require compensation as there’s nothing bad they’ve done to another, only to themselves being the most self-unloving one can be. You see James, in these ‘Hitler’ type evil people, bearing in mind you are all evil, they are actually being ‘loving’ of themselves. None of it is true love, it’s all false mind created love, but the act of taking out your pain on another is a perverted way of giving yourself love. You are effectively saying, I hate them, they are mean to me, they don’t love me; so you hurt them, fighting them off, making them feel bad, punishing them, saying: they are the bad one, not me, I am the good one, they are the evil one; not me, so I hate them and they should be got rid of, they should cease to be; not me, I am the good one, I should exist. So in a way you are ‘loving’ yourself, telling yourself you are good and not bad.
I see what you’re saying Mary. Whereas the truly evil person feeling so powerless and unloved does truly hate themselves, yet without gaining any sense of power from their self-hatred. They are not doing anything to try and gain love, love of themselves or from anyone or anything else.
Yes that’s right, so they don’t do anything that gives them false power, because there can be a false power in hate. These people just feel vacuous as in so empty and insignificant, so nothing, that there is no power, they don’t even use their self-loathing as a means of false power. It’s simply a state of no-love, so nothing. You exist, but really you aren’t - or that’s how you feel, like in a way that you don’t actually exist, and yet you are still eating, drinking, breathing, going to the toilet and even to work, and so on. Love is the state of ALL, to feel loved you feel the maximum that you exist. So you feel wanted by Creation, wanted by God, that you are Their child and so on. To feel completely unloved - so no love, is to feel the opposite of such good feelings, so all the bad and worst ones. And it’s even more than you feel you are a bad person and so should be exterminated, for in those feelings you still have some false power by feeling you are bad. It’s deeper than feeling bad, it’s feeling NOTHING, so NO FEELING. And to feel no feeling is the most negative or evil you can be, because the most feeling is the most love you can feel. Love is a feeling, NOTHING IS NO FEELING, so you can’t even say you FEEL NOTHING, for you just ARE NOTHING. And being ‘no feeling’ (for in actuality you can’t not feel feelings, you always are even when you shut them all out) you are no truth, because no feelings - no-truth, as truth can only come from feelings. And so being no-truth means you are no love - so you are evil.
Yes I understand more now Mary. So really the Greatest Evil would mean the very opposite to the Greatest Love, so it would mean no God, no soul... so yes, I see what you mean: on a personal level you’d feel you had no soul, no love, where NOTHING, so didn’t actually exist, as you were saying.
Yes, that you are not an important or significant and valuable part of Creation, and a loving child of loving Heavenly Parents. You’d feel the opposite. So if only evil were to exist, then that would mean they’d be no Creation, no Soul, no Mother and Father - no truth, no love. So really there is no point in Rebellion which all of you are to see, because then you’d all cease to be. You’d all be NOTHING. (And by Nothing I really mean it, and not some esoteric mental nonsense gymnastic that would try and argue or reason that in Nothing there is Everything. For of course there is always everything, your soul always exits, but your being NOTHING is in fact a state of mind I am talking about - an evil mind and will state. A negative state of no love as opposed to a positive state of love.)
The Lucifer’s wanted their own power, so rebelled against you and Jesus and the Mother and Father. I doubt the wanted to be NOTHING, as if they didn’t exist.
That’s right James, they didn’t understand what being truly evil means. So they developed the Doctrine of Freedom and Liberation which to their way of distorted thinking actually gave people, mind spirits and angels, more power than they had - ‘take all matters into your hands, rebel agains the powers that be’. All false power.
Well Mary thank you very much, that was terrific, and very important. I understand more now what evil really is and it’s helped to explain so much of Marion’s and my healing, all the bits we’ve been through, with times of feeling we are so nothing, and then at other times all the false power we’ve taken on and been made to have and believed it’s right to have. I now see really where our healing is taking us, into understanding what evil does feel like even though as you say it is beyond feelings. That evil is only a state of mind and not a true state of soul. That we’ve had evil imposed on us through the corruption of our minds. And all by making us move away from and deny our feelings. So this Nothing state is a mind state, possibly even an existential one of sorts, with no experience of feeling, at least no direct awareness of feeling-experience within it. It sure is a weird state or place to be in, fuck I have hated those feelings the most, as does Marion. And they are so hard to articulate. I’ve just felt stunned, shocked, traumatised - NOTHING, numb, frozen, so sort of like I’m in a state of suspended animation and yet at the same time so incredibly bad. Like I am just pain, but also NO PAIN. The pain of being Nothing! And yet I can see that to feel pain I am something and someone because I am feeling something. So it’s sort of beyond pain, but such a deep pain, possibly it is the true pain of our soul in our most evilness.
I’ll leave you to ponder that James. You’re getting tired so I will go now.
Thank you again Mary, I feel a bit speechless about all you’ve said, my mind has been turned around and feels now more squarely anchored in relating to understanding what true evil is.
I’ll speak to you soon James - goodnight.