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Post by wesley on Aug 23, 2014 3:13:00 GMT 10
As a boy at 5 to a boy at 46 I go back to see what actually happened. As the inspiration that lead me through this life. What I learned and conceived to be beneficial to me. Being taught what life is started with the feminine nature. As my mom rejected me from learning about it I can only see that maybe she cut me off because of her relationship with my dad. Knowing maybe that my relationship with women would excel her and my days with women would cause me to question her relationship with my dad. Why don't you too seem close to each other at all. But one thing that I did do is listen to the women teachers in my life. Which started me in all aspects of my life. Now if I could have started with my mom then maybe I wouldn't have been so deep into my rock hard male life. But at least thanks to all the females in my life a little light shown through. Because with the things I put together I definitely would not be with James on the wonderments of the women. There is no doubt about it and if the men will wakeup they will finally see. The male tower is too high and hollow and it's about to crash with nothing inside. Man time is coming to close so let's look for the Truth together. Male and female together.
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Post by desire2bme on Aug 24, 2014 1:06:29 GMT 10
Wes, How did that play out?...how you say you were cut off by your mom because of her relationship with your dad. What did you watch happen or not happen between them? And was there anything you decided from watching their relationship?
The more I see the role of the feminine has in loosing us from the prison bars that keep emotion jailed within her...living as examples of being rightly proud of and tending to and including the emotional body...the more I wonder about what all is in the masculine side of this. As I continue to stay open to my own wounds that happened as a result of my relationship with my father, I am finding that I came out of my childhood feeling many rages, not wanting to ever depend a man, never wanting to look to a man to protect me or ever trust him for anything. And this comes out of all of the pain I lived so wanting all of this from him, thinking he had it to give me and at the same time feeling everyday no connection. Recently I discovered my rant as a child saying "He's not my dad!" was a declaration to him saying "You have failed me and I want everyone to know it. Your sperm does not make me your child." And yet the more I try to remove any fingerprint of his off of me, not wanting him to be able to lay claim to me in any way shape or form, the child conditioned to keep on looking to him for affirmation from tries to keep on connecting.
I found this dynamic happening through an event with a guy who I used to look to for spiritual teaching...within the Christian circles we are told that spiritual babies need help and guidance from mothers and fathers of the faith (those who have supposedly "matured"). There were some common threads of his personality and my fathers. He was the one who knew stuff and I didn't. Any questions that would be asked would be asked by him, not by me. And if I was moved to ask a question from something that didn't make sense that he said, I was living rebellious and not respecting his authority. So I learned to keep my mouth shut. Having little connection with him anymore because of my move away from what he teaches, I find this desire in me to want to share every once in a while through email my own spiritual development. Sometimes he would be affirming, other times I'd hear nothing back, and more recently he shared with me how he waits for me to come back around to the way he taught me, trusting one day I will. When I tried to show up as who I am as I grow wanting to share, and it does not coincide with his ways, his Master move with me says, "I planted seeds of truth in you and I know that they will grow into what I intended."
As this came to pass in a recent email, all of my rage broke loose. It was the awful feeling of someone saying I bore you, I gave my seed and am part of you, and no matter how long it takes you will come back around to knowing that I was right and all of your spiritual work has been for naught. My mind knows this is trash, but the wound and pain from my childhood relationship with my father is oozing full tilt feeling the murderous rage for him telling me I can not ever be separated from him and be my own person. His shadow of disapproval of choosing other than his ways of thinking and living will always be with me..."praying for me" because he "loves and cares" for me so much.
And how this co-mingles with my blood father...he did not spend time teaching me because I feared asking him anything very early on sensing his impatience and anger with how long it takes a child to grasp something. And I was just a girl, not much REAL use to him in his need for men who can do farm work. This was how women were seen in the church as well...just women, there for a man to put his arm around and show what a grand family man his was when Sundays come and good for putting hot meals on the table as well as providing him sex for the asking come bedtime. But to stand and think that I could offer my own life experience and believe it would be validated and see as helpful to him...well, that's just laughable..."She'll come around one day, silly girl, silly woman."
And here it is, my desire to prove man is wrong and to want to hurt him back causing him the same kind of pain I have felt living as a girl/woman. I have been hurt and tossed aside only to be used for what man wants to use me for. And if you, blood father and spiritual male teachers, do not validate me I want NOTHING to do with you anymore. Don't pray for me, stop believing you are right and thinking one day I will come around to seeing it your way! And the problem and pain continues...because I can't stop them from doing what they will choose to do, having and keeping hold of the kind of picture of me that they say I am and as they do this discounting me for listening to my own feelings instead of them. Within this present gift of a situation, I am feeling all of the feelings that come with "leaving home" becoming responsible for my own life and all that comes with that when how I choose to live does not jive with what the "man of the house/men of the church" say is the right way for a woman to live. The feelings I feel from the child in me that has no ability to change the view of the ones in control of me, unable to make them truly see or hear me, this place of pain has NO WORDS...just God awful pain. Unable to strip them off from me to become my own person...this present day situation is bringing all of those forgotten feelings up for me to feel...and feel some more...and some more, without using the mind to soften their blow.
All this learning and feeling is bringing me back to what is the true masculine part to bring? And I sense that as we do mature, the masculine part of us is here to foster anyone we find in our lives to follow their own heart...not needing them to be my ego stroke by giving up their current truths or ways of living and take up what I believe is "right". Right and needing to be right is out the window. Living to protect and make room for the feminine, honoring her, affirming her, giving her a platform to speak and share all she is learning...I believe this must be the true masculine way (the masculine in men and in women). It is what I have felt here...what you have created James here in the forum, this safe refuge, a place protected byway of the high bar of truth you have raised in creating your website. To be able to feel through all of this pain of it not being this way and all of my murderous rage and desire to punish men, wanting God to hurt them back for me...it has to be, it has to all come up or I will be living out those seeds planted...of wanting to be in charge of how it needs to go for everyone else and never wanting anyone to grow outside of my own "right" lines, keeping them underneath me and without a voice.
**Realization: In order to be a my father's daughter, a student of a teacher, church goer...I must betray myself. SELF-BETRAYAL, this is the wound. All of this coming up for me to see my life long betrayal of my own self, so wanting and hoping to be seen for who I was while I became what someone else wanted me to be.
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Post by wesley on Aug 24, 2014 14:16:12 GMT 10
Hello Desire. My parents relationship was very unclear to me growing up. I never seen any signs that they even cared for one another. They never talked to each other at least in front of us. He did his thing where my mother spoke on the phone most of the time. And this was instilled in all of us my brothers in our relationship s. I ve seen other relationships on the outside of our family and seen couples together and close. So I wanted that for myself. But the condition that I endured at home was so strong that everything that I seem to offer in a relationship was what I seen at home. Unconsciously my relationship with women were exactly like my parents. What power they had over me knowing everything about me since they groomed me into this non feeling man (monster). Years of relationship one after the other. Without feelings being involved all relationships are doomed. You can't conversate because without feelings all the words are false. Can't connect is such a horrible way of life. I look back on my time with the women of my life all were false as none could open me up. So many apologies I would like to deliver but it's all passed. How can such as a bad parental relationship crush everyone of us is such a horror. But more of a horror knowing that feelings need to be involved and men are not taking that step to catch up to the women of our hearts and lives. As I read yours and Samantha on menopause and my wife,I agree with my wife that man wouldn't be able to handle it. Without being in touch with our emotions we would break out and run. Which we are so good for. When relationships get hot we get going. Not confronting anything inside of us. Being angry and blaming. Never blaming my self thinking I'm being a man like my dad and never wanting to be like him. So I said no way. That didn't work. No matter what I did or how I presented myself it all went south. I couldn't take the heat so I ran and ran. So many women trying to communicate to me but I was a brick wall. Nothing but the same old thing. Without the healing process I would still be sitting here wondering how to be different than my parents and losing the battle horribly. My wife and I are picking up the pieces together now. Still like James I'm going through it very hard. Just trying to catch up so to speak. I ask my wife to be patient with me because my eyes are opening slowly but SURELY. And the pain is so much different now because I can feel her as she tells me about myself. Many years being trapped and believing that I'm free. Only the Truth can do that and I tried the false way and made my own personal evil prison. But I'm breaking out little by little.
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Post by James on Aug 24, 2014 19:25:33 GMT 10
I relate a lot to what you've said Wes. One of my big problems is that I always blame everyone else other than myself, whilst Marion always blames herself. It is I think pretty typical of how men and women are, the woman being made to feel she's at fault, the man faultless, yet being the one blaming her. So to turn it around and stay with myself blaming myself has been very difficult as my patterns are so heavily ingrained in me. And I express my 'superiority' in so many subtle and little ways, all of which I'm still struggling to become fully aware of, but which Marion so easily points out to me. When you've been the powerless one, knowing what it feels like to keep getting shat on by those who believe they are superior, it's much easier to see those in the wrong than when you're the 'superior' deluded one consumed by your own self-glory - the one doing all the shitting all over.
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Post by desire2bme on Aug 25, 2014 4:53:42 GMT 10
He (father) did his thing where my mother spoke on the phone most of the time.My mother was on the phone also, speaking with her mother. As a kid, the phone was another obstacle for me on the course of my trying to find a way to connect with my mom. To this day, I don't like the phone on a certain level. When I choose to make a call out, which is seldom, I feel more in control (in control of what, I wonder?). When the phone rings, I don't want to answer it...I feel less control. Who wants me? What will they want from me? Will I be able to speak up or will I allow them to ramble on in randomness? They're calling me feels like they have the "upper hand." Probably similar to what a man feels like when a woman "wants to talk."  The other thing that comes up instantly with the phone is how it angered my father to see my mother talking on it. Without feelings being involved all relationships are doomed. You can't conversate because without feelings all the words are false.I need to start saving these Wes-isms in a little book. When you and James write these things, it brings something into me that would not come had a woman said the same thing. It adds something to this new pot I have inside of me growing...the pot that is believing it is safe to grow here, and if I feel stabbed in the gut by something a man says here, it is not to intentionally mess with me, but something actually FOR me, to explore and find the truth about from feeling the wound that got stabbed. I look back on my time with the women of my life all were false as none could open me up. How powerful is our decision as women to keep a lid on how we feel or not to. No woman can over ride a man's choice to stay closed to how he really feels but it usually doesn't stop her from trying (manipulating). What I am seeing for myself is that I manipulate less the more I allow myself to feel the pain in the times when my husband feels the need to close down. And each time I allow who I can not control alone and feel my inner loneliness/pain of the disconnection, it is having an affect of my husband being less closed down...nothing I try to make happen by manipulation, but by staying in the center of my own feelings. Without being in touch with our emotions we would break out and run. Not confronting anything inside of us. Being angry and blaming. I couldn't take the heat so I ran and ran.Our minds have been groomed to bring our feeling of being "in control." So when we get a whiff of emotions coming up in us or someone else, initially it feels like being an animal being hunted down by a predator, being stalked and knowing these emotions...if I allow myself to feel them...will be the death of my mind being in control. And there's truth in this fear that the mind has as it does have to loose it's Master role and be subject to the truth our feelings desire to lead us into if we will sink into them and no longer run from them. Both men and women have been groomed to feel this false sense of being in control with the mind at the helm. I tried the false way and made my own personal evil prison. But I'm breaking out little by little. And your breaking out little by little, giving yourself your own permission to come into as much feeling as you are ready for, without being pushed or prodded by anyone else, but because you have decided, this is the stuff of "new birth". As I watch your birthings, I want nothing but to keep on allowing my own. Thanks for all of what you wrote. Also your words: non feeling man (monster) brought me closer to really getting it that when I deny my feelings, all of what is denied will drag me around and control me and that's why I learned to fear feeling anything. I watched my parents living out of control with their emotions in their passive aggressive ways and so tried to keep all of mine swallowed... and became JUST LIKE THEM. Going in the other direction and welcoming them now...as the emotions arise, desiring to know the truth of them, the fears I had of them are being defused. James, my first inclination is to project and want to blame everyone other than myself as well and at the very same time having lived feeling the more "worthless" sex (female), I instinctually feel I am to blame...and I think it's true, that this works in my favor when I learn not to punish myself for the pain I am causing. That's the hitch right there for me. The pain is not about me being bad which is what living only by rules always led me to believe. Had I done the RIGHT thing, I would be GOOD, but pain in my life tells me I am BAD, very very BAD and therefore should be punished. If I am feeling bad, feeling pain, I now know I need to feel embraced not kicked to the curb or put behind bars until I learn my lesson! Kissing the child who has fallen over or crashed instead of lecturing her...allowing her to be angry, kick, scream or cry her eyes out. Blaming myself slowly becomes what I know will lead to me healing my pain instead of being punished and isolated away. "I am feeling worthless right now" are the true words superiority does not want to see. When I don't want to feel my feelings of worthlessness and powerlessness (that submitting to my emotions always brings), I have to make you take on the worthlessness that I am unwilling to feel. So great to have one smart cookie who knows it's not good for you to take your feelings of worthlessness and shit them on her. It think it's all part of learning the bad habit, believing when we feel like crap we can take it to mommy who is suppose to make us feel all better, while taking away our opportunity to feel our own feelings.
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The other thing that comes up instantly with the phone is how it angered my father to see my mother talking on it.