Could you please tell me which of my books have you read? And which ones have you found the most helpful?
Have you read all my Divine Love Spirituality site? Or which parts, and which parts have been most helpful.
Have you read my Childhood Repression site? And if so, which parts have helped you to the most.
And have you read the Padgett Messages - and how much of them?
And The Urantia Book, have you read any of it, and which sections have you liked the most?
Have you read any of Alice Miller's books?
And have you read anything else which has helped you with your healing?
And do you receive the RSS feed from this forum?
And lastly: How much of your day would you spend on advancing your knowledge about your healing, DLS, your childhood repression, or anything else to do with your spiritual growth. And does that include prayer or meditation time. And how often would you long for the Truth, and the Divine Love?
And finally, finally - is there any other area of religion, spirituality or healing that you'd like me to focus more on, or you'd like more information about from Divine Love Spirituality's point of view?
I dont know if I can sum up what I read because I always continuly read and go over everything because there is always something that I miss. I myself scan better than I can read. My wife is the reader. But its all so interesting that I must say that all the books are very interesting to me. I like the one when the 2 role players continuely go over everything that annoyed them and both agreeing to do their feeling healing. Some of it sounds so much of me and my wife. With the annyoying neighbor we have. Banging of the doors and the shouting in odd times of the night. But by far ask Mary and Jesus is my favorite because I loved listening to Mary M. I just can imagine how she was on earth when she was here and shut out of generation. The realness as they spoke as caring individual. How they continuely lead us into our soul healing without giving our goals and our end game. I always get that ah feeling when they say we can't reveal some things we would like to know. Its all about soul healing. It definitely makes me wonder when that fucked up feeling inside me turns to joy. Because I know beauty of the spirit world will not heal this pain inside. Its like the Lionel Richie lyric " sailing....good times never felt so good". Oh I wondered when my healing is done How FEELING GOOD would be. And the 2 celestial spirits I think Mage and Ann. One was speaking how the mum told her to not drink soda because of the sugar. I wondered were they in the spirit world on this occasion or was that something she remembered on earth? The one on Nature Spirits is also very good because I and my wife enjoy nature. I myself would like more info centered on your healing if you can that changed for you. I like to know through the years what actually change between You and Marion from the beginning to now but only if you would like to share. As I said before I like to scan and skim so the Urantia I key on the sections talking about the Thought Adjusters, Mystery moniters and Father Fragments. I also like how they also talked about the Mother Soul/Spirit which made me very happy that at least one Holy Book made the effort. In respects to doing my soul healing I concentrate all the time because my bad feelings are on going. I m up and then down for the count. Sometimes it feels like i am in a boxing match. So I am fight back by longing for the Truth of all of these feelings coming in. The first time I written to you woul be about 8 months that I have been doing my soul healing and what I ve achieve is so remarkable. I ve never felt every bit of these aches and pain and not denying them. I could nt even conceive in going back to the way I was or even remember how I kept them down. I always watch people around me thinking " how do the move about with out feeling the pain that so revelant in us all" I am the only one out of the six of us(talking about myself and the people around me) feeling like a piece of shit and ready to die and remembering thats not going to help me. Yes I would say I always do my healing.I tried meditation a few years ago but to no avail. Just didnt know what I needed or was looking for with it. Both me and my wife gave it a shot. I stopped and few days later she also stopped. Prayer I tried the Perfect Prayer for over 7 years but wasnt effective . I started saying it not even knowing truly what the prayer was actually saying. So longing I enjoy more than prayer. If there something that I missed let me know?
Thank you Wes for answering my questions. And no problems, I'll write more about Marion's and my changes. Hey, any excuse to write about myself!
I was wondering too if you've scanned the Urantia Book papers concerning the Lucifer Rebellion and Adamic Default. They help set the scene of why we're in our bad state. Also the papers about the Descending Sons - about what Jesus and Mary's soul is all about, are well worth the read to better help appreciate them and understand where we fit in the scheme of things.
Also, have you looked at my second Feeling-Healing book: Feeling bad makes you feel Better - eventually! That has lots of examples of Marion's and my healing experiences in it.
And you saying "The first time I written to you woul be about 8 months that I have been doing my soul healing and what I ve achieve is so remarkable." That really pleases me that I've been of some help.
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
Hi Wes, Mary and Jesus have said that overall they are no longer going to visit anyone on Earth, that’s all finishing with the end of the age. However, lately they’ve started saying they might visit people, but only people who are doing their healing, should some reason come up to warrant them visiting. They want us to understand that overall they being personally involved with humanity on Earth is over, so to beware of anyone claiming to be speaking with them, especially if they are not full on into their healing. However like reading the fine print, that’s not to say for one reason or another they might visit someone, but it’s still highly unlikely... yet still... you never can tell because things change as feelings change. Does that make sense?
Also there are a couple of people they are apparently going to visit during the next age, so as to reveal more about their lives when on Earth, but those people will have finished their healing, and I’ll be long dead well before then.
Technically they don’t actually visit me in my writing with them, they don’t actually come into the lower Earth planes and be as close as they can be with me as we talk, it’s somehow done from afar, they not even having to come to the lower Celestial spheres or into the mansion worlds. I guess it’s just some sort of telepathy or some mind exchange thing in which they can somehow impress their thoughts on my mind. And they reckon they will keep doing it with me to help me reveal all the truths and information I need to, but I feel that at any moment it might end too.
Concerning having to follow the Avonals, it’s all technical, and you don’t have to worry about it. Jesus and Mary are overshadowing them currently, so if you do your healing as Mary and Jesus are speaking about, then you are also receiving any necessary help from the Avonals Spirits of Truth, with you and Samantha being testimony to that. So how you are Wes and what you’re doing is all you need to do, and really I wouldn’t worry about it (unless of course you’ve got bad feelings to express) - I don’t, as just trying to be true to all our feelings, expressing them to uncover their truth, being all we need to keep focused on. All the rest will simply take care of itself.
And I only write about such things with Mary and Jesus to help set the record straight on a technical level, because there is so much confusion and misinformation out there.
And as to even if there is an Avonal pair, frankly I don’t know, I’m going along with what Mary and Jesus are saying. And I know there is more to it, but they are not as yet revealing it, their whole focus being on just helping us understand how important it is to keep honouring all our feelings. Because in the end it doesn’t matter about who you follow, as we’re only to follow ourselves - our own feelings, as they are what will lead us to Paradise and to be with our Mother and Father. We will only ever have ourselves, we won’t have the Avonals or Mary and Jesus to help us once we leave Nebadon.
I’ve still got quite a few recent messages from Mary and Jesus I’m going to post in a few days time, some of which touch a little more on these topics.
But really Wes, from all I know, and that is all only based on how my healing has been for me, if you’re growing in truth through your ongoing feeling acceptance, which means, if you’re understanding more about why you feel bad, then you’re on the right track, so you must be aligned with whatever Spirits of Truth are available to help us.
Of course were the Avonals to suddenly appear, then well what could you say... I don’t know about it, it certainly would be a huge thing for humanity on a spiritual level. However as to what they will do, will they make it known to the whole world who they are and what they are revealing, or will they just tell a few people close to them, I don’t know. I don’t know what constitutes their ‘going public’, and Jesus and Mary won’t tell me anything about it. So for all I know, they might go public, as in announce to someone who they are, but with the rest of the world not knowing about it, it all being a very localised event. So really so far as we’re concerned, it all comes back to just keeping on going with our own healing and see where that leads us. And in writing this, technically I feel, and this is new for me, and I’d have to confirm it with Mary and Jesus, really all the Avonals are required to do is tell one soul-pair about themselves in a public sense, so a minimum of two people. And those two people would then go out with their message telling others, but no one else would need to even meet or see the Avonals, for their public experience would be contained within the interaction with those two people, a man and woman. So that’s on the minimalist side concerning their public life, and as to what their public life on maximum exposure might entail, I have speculated about that. And as it says in The Urantia Book that such bestowal Avonals are accompanied to their bestowal world by legions of angels, I would presume that should the Mother and Father enact the power of such legions, then astounding wonders and massive numbers of healings might occur. Jesus during his life did such a minuscule amount of impressing the locals, as you know, only a couple of healings, a bit of water into wine and a few fish appearing, and oh yeah, Lazarus waking up out of his coma, but nothing really when you consider he’s the Master Son of Nebadon. And yet who’s to say that any show needs to be put on anyway, and instead allowing the truth to speak for itself, so perhaps there will not need to be any ‘wonders’ performed. And perhaps if the Avonals were to perform them, that might even have the adverse effect on people making them head off further into their negative states and evilness rather than making them want to do their healing. And yet going around in a full circle, possibly this could even be what the Mother and Father might want.
And as of about the last six months I’ve given up thinking about such things, it’s all just speculation, god, for all I know there might not even be any Avonal pair and all Mary and Jesus are telling me about them turns out to be something else - for some other reason. So I tend to put the Avonals on the shelf, and should they appear, well great and I’ll see how I feel about it all then. And I’ve given up looking for them or hoping they will step out into the light any time soon. But in the meantime, I keep putting my writing out there because I do know the healing has helped me so much, and so it might help other people, and really whether or not the Avonal stuff is true or not doesn’t matter, it’s not going to hurt anyone, because as you and Samantha have shown me, other people are doing their healing, and that’s all that matters.
And thank you Wes for asking your questions, I enjoy answering them as they do draw more out of me, which is why I tend to go on a bit. So please don’t hesitate to keep asking me about stuff even if it’s the things.
I feel down and despondent about it all - about myself - today, more stuff to do with my father has been coming up and really I feel like I’ll never get to the end of it all. My healing will go on forever, and perhaps there isn’t an end to it anyway - I don’t know. But still I can’t stop it, that much I do know, nor do I want to. And I feel that until I do finish it, I will not fully understand about such things as the Avonal pair, because it won’t be until I’m healed that Mary and Jesus will fill me in on it all. And as I feel I’ll never finish it, so I try not to think about things to do with Avonals too much as it only distracts me from concentrating on my feelings. However having said that, I’m quite happy to talk about it concerning my writing - at least for the time being, as I might change about that too.
I would imagine other people would be interested in the Avonals, as wether or not they are here now, humanity will need them at some point, because it’s becoming clearer by the day that just longing for and receiving the Divine Love isn’t going to heal ones childhood repression. And something needs to happen, because if what Mary and Jesus says is true in that their Spirits of Truth can’t actually help us heal all of ourselves as shown by no one claiming to have been fully healed through their age, then as they say we do need a higher Daughter and Son to help us lead the way out of it.
I think I’ll start a new thread Wes in which we can discuss more about the Avonals. I’ll put put it in the board ‘Technical stuff’ and I’ll ask you some questions about what you think and feel about them. So I’ll talk to you over there.
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
Wes, I've deleted you as a member of the forum - your two accounts. So now if you can Register again on the Homepage, and fingers crossed. Let's see if that works. I'll post the answer to your questions later.
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
By doing your healing Wes, you ARE changing those things within yourself. Really our feeling - and soul-healing is our Will-Healing.
All we need do is apply our will to fully acknowledge, and so accept, express and long for the truth of our feelings - this is why I stress this so much. So as long as you are doing that, you are applying your will to heal yourself of your dysfunction, bad habits, treating others badly, and all your unloving childhood behaviour and patterns you put on other people, nature and God. It’s a subtle process in many ways, but not so in others - I’ll try to give an example.
You become aware of one of these problems, say you eat too much and you don’t like doing that as it makes you feel bad. So you allow yourself to feel these bad feelings, and all how feeling such feelings make you feel. That part of your healing is using your will to submit to your bad feelings. By allowing you are using your will because you have to want to and make yourself do it - go against your programming of denying the feelings. So right there you are saying to yourself, no, I want to stop this, but not using your mind and trying to force greater control over yourself, using your will in an unloving and self-defeating way; but going in the opposite direction and giving in, giving up, falling into those bad feelings, so using your will to do that, which usurps your minds control. Suddenly your mind doesn’t know what to do, you’re altering its programming - your learnt and imposed childhood behaviour pattern of being unloving and so evil to yourself. Now you are saying no, I want to feel these bad feelings I have, they are good to have, they are a part of me that is trying to tell me something about myself. So I am not going to dismiss them, I am going to accept them by expressing them. And that’s the next part. In expressing them you are engaging your will to do that, a kind, caring and loving thing to do for yourself. So this is willing yourself, or energising and using our will to go against your minds programming, by willing yourself to bring out these bad feelings instead of willing yourself to keep them denied.
So this is why it can be so hard to bring your bad feelings up and out, as sometimes we have to use all our will to keep going doing it, which then leads to breaking down the barriers of our mind which are preventing us from doing it. So our whole healing is one long drawn out will-struggle. We are trying to apply our will to back and be true to our feelings, as opposed to it backing and supporting our mind against our feelings, that which we’ve all grown up being made to do.
So in most things your bad feelings bring up, you’re going to feel confused, demented, all over the place, as you struggle this way and that, all having to keep applying your will to stay on it, staying focused on feelings as Samantha demonstrates so well. So slowly through your healing, you’re literally ‘Willing’ yourself out of your evilness and into your trueness with it all being done through your feelings.
And then the final act of will is our longing for the truth of our feelings. We have to activate it, really put all our will into wanting to uncover the truth of our soul, of our true self. And if you don’t, you can go on expressing your bad feelings all day long but nothing will come of it so far as the truth is concerned.
So our whole healing is our declaration to ourselves and the world (as represented by our parents), and even to our Mother and Father, that NO, WE DON’T LIKE HOW WE ARE AND WE WANT TO CHANGE OURSELVES. And through our healing we can do that. However what we have to avoid is trying to change all those bad parts of ourselves by using our mind and keeping our feelings suppressed and repressed more than they already are. And mostly all our so-called ways in the world that people teach about how to make ourselves be better people, are not fully honouring our feelings, but trying to empower our wills even more against ourselves than they already are.
That’s all the more obvious part of using our will.
This next part might be more difficult to understand - I’m only just doing so myself lately.
And what you’ll also find is we have work ourselves back to our bear bones, so all our afflictions and problems and negative behaviour to the point of uncovering the whole truth of it. You get to the point of feeling like you can’t go any further, you’re at the end, you just can’t do anything more about having such problems and being so evil other than just accepting that. Reaching the point of saying something like: well fuck it, I can’t do anything else, I have expressed all the bad feelings I can to the best of ability and yet still I am fucked. And so just staying there with and in your fuckedness and still not trying to do anything about it with your mind.
And of course at this point no doubt you will be praying to the Mother and Father to heal you and keep bringing up yet more repressed feelings so you can uncover the truth of them, but you’ll also be coming to terms with the truth that it IS how They want you to be. So yet more self-acceptance.
And when you have uncovered all the truth They want you to see about yourself in the negative, then such problems will go. Or if they don’t go, they will cease to be problems as you’ve fully accepted them, even turning them into being good things for you. However as to what bad aspects of your negative personality expression leave you because of the Mother’s and Father’s doing, and which parts remain but all being part of your positive personality expression as you finish your healing, remains to be seen, it being something we just have to see for ourselves. And Marion and I are not at this point yet, but I can sense it. I waiting to see how it does manifest if we ever do finish our healing.
So Wes, sorry for going on a bit, but I like your questions and want to use them to further explain the whole thing. So the main part of it is, you are willing yourself to change by looking to and fully embracing your feelings, this short-circuiting your minds control over you. So in every second of your healing life, you are reorientating your will as more of the real and true you comes to light.
Our parents ‘damaged’ our will, which means, they made us focus our wills in their full strength (because they always operate on full) on going against ourselves, as they stopped us fully and freely expressing our wills. So we have to use a bit of extra force to refocus our wills into going the other way, so into and with our feelings.
And it’s interesting that both you and Samantha have said you’re not longing for the Divine Love as much, instead focusing more on your feelings. And that for me is a good sign as it shows you’re wanting to put more of your wills into healing yourselves than even longing for the Divine Love. And as you already have some of the Love in your souls, so there is plenty of time to pray for more, even if you leave it until spirit. But naturally I would expect you want to fix yourselves up, so give all your time and energy, all your effort of will; even if it’s just relishing the moment of feeling loved by the Mother as you said you do Wes, whilst you find out more about what your healing is really all about, and about whether or not you do really want to commit yourself to it. All the way along we have to keep reaffirming to ourselves to keep going, all because we FEEL WE WANT TO, and not because we believe or think we should. And this is all stuff to do with our will.
So to finish - I did Wes intend to only write a small amount, but I can’t help myself!!! - all so long as you keep attending to your feelings you don’t have to worry about doing anything else. Naturally when your feelings bring up some part of you that you don’t like about yourself and it makes you feel bad, you’ll no longer want to be this bad way, but all you do is keep accepting, expressing and longing for the truth of all those bad feelings, and telling the Mother and Father that you don’t want to be as you are - telling Them all your feel. And so you don’t have to actively change yourself, because all you know is you don’t want to be how you are because you feel bad, so you stay there with that. You don’t actually know what is the right way to be, you might think you do, it being the opposite, so what would make you feel good, but that’s still all in your mind, and as you can’t actually know the right way to be until you are it, simply being it, and then you will feel you are the right way - just knowing it’s right, it being part of the truth of who you are.
Also, as some of this might sound a bit conceptual or technical, please give me specific situations you’re in or things you don’t like about yourself and feel bad about, and you tell me what you think you should or should not do, and we can discuss them. What, for example Wes, caused you to ask these questions?
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
No(giving to much information) thats what I like about you and asking you question because its so much to take in that keeps me interested. There is something always new to me to try and use in my healing. And some things I kind of knew by doing my healing sometimes hearing it again gets better everytime. So go on and on I love this type of communication because healing is my whole existence at this time in my life. The more information the better. Also I am becoming a better reader which is a surprise to me. Maybe its because being very interested in what i am reading helps alot. Well specifically I would say I came from a family where smoking cigarettes was very prevalant in our family. I started smoking with my first girlfriend. I don't know if it was the influence that started me smoking. The thing about it is I am not a heavy smoker so casually smoking on occasions lead to me smoking when I bored. Many people were surprise that I did. But now I find it difficult just to stop casually smoking. And I dont want to go cold turkey because that would be using my mind in the process. All the other pass use of drugs and alcohol are gone but the casual smoke tends to stay there. I am afraid that I am not totally against smoking but I really want to heal myself away from it. A habit I don't need.
So really Wes, it’s about trying to feel and so see, why you do need it. So I ask you Wesley: Why do you need to smoke? Can you say more about that.
We mostly smoke and do such things to cover up feeling powerless. Our feeling powerless makes us feel bad, so we do something wrongly believing that thing makes us feel good - and so powerful. So do you feel powerless - can you feel that Wes? And why do you think you do feel it?
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
Yes powerless. I feel a false comfort but afterwards bad feelings streaming in. It's like my soul is showing me that it is false. But through these bad feelings I have no need to smoke or if I'm participating in some type of activity. It seems that if I keep up the bad feelings flowing in the thought of smoking is not there. Is it more of thinking of smoking or just being powerless?
From all Marion has helped me to see, it's about staying with our bad feelings as much as we can. So whatever they are at the time. The aim being to get the truth of why you feel powerless, the smoking really being irrelevant. The smoking just shows something's not right, and the more you become - and allow yourself to become - aware of why you need to smoke, so getting more in touch with those hidden underlying feelings each time you feel like smoking, then the truth will gradually come to light. That's how it works for me anyway. But I can tell you Wes, some of my afflictions I've been working on for years now, and sometimes I can't be bothered with dealing with the bad feelings, other times I don't have them, but then at other times up they come I hate having them and feel so angry, having strong feelings to express and long for the truth of. So as desire2bme said in her first post, I guess it's when its ready it all comes to light, and all in its good time. The Mother and Father keep telling me that I've got to keep having my afflictions, even though I've seen so much truth as to why I have them in connection with my feeling-denial, so as to keep having them put pressure on me to make me keep feeling bad so more deeper pain and yuk can surface. And to keep showing me that I'm still not right. And They've said that when they've served their purpose, so I no longer need them, then they will go.
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
James I read in the urantia how Satan and the evil spirits didn't believe in the ascending process which to me soul healing. Do you have anything on that that you read or did I read this wrong. And would that be the rebellion that they started? And how did the rebellion become so popular to these high spirits or angels?
No you didn’t read it incorrectly Wes, that’s what the book says, and from all I’ve been told and feel myself, I have no reason to disagree with The Urantia Book. In fact the further I go in my healing, the more what is says makes sense.
This is as I see it, bearing in mind I haven’t read the book for years. And as I know how much you love reading Wes, I’ve thought I’d give you a little more to go on with... ! Whilst I have the time and inclination I want to write out as much as I can about these things all as part of my ongoing revelation.
From The Urantia Book we understand that Creation as it currently stands, consists of seven Superuniverses revolving around one massive perfect Central Universe, which itself has at its centre like the hub of a gigantic wheel, Paradise, the heart, home and soul of our Mother and Father. And each of these Superuniverses are composed of masses of smaller more ‘local universes’ which are overseen by a Master Son and Mistress Daughter - being Jesus and Mary M in our case. So we live in ‘their’ local universe: Nebadon.
Nebadon is then further broken down into many subunits, all of which are governed by higher Sons and Daughters but of lesser soul origin than Mary and Jesus. They being the CO’s as it were, with the Managers looking after things on yet more localised levels.
The main managers are what the Lucifers, Satans, Caligastias, Daligastias are. (I relate to them as soul-pairs, so both a male and female higher Son and Daughter, whereas the UB only talks about everything in the masculine, so Satan and Lucifer etc.)
The Lucifers were the governing authority of our part of Nebadon - Satania, with the Satans helping them doing much of the footwork involved. Then on the planetary level, the Calagastias were the governing head of Earth - Uranita, who did this work from spirit in the lower Celestial spheres and mansion worlds. Then at the certain time long ago, the Daligastias materialised into being on Earth itself together with a number of helpers also suddenly appearing out of thin air from spirit, all who were to help primitive humanity evolve on all levels.
So all the physical planets of Nebadon, of which we on Urantia are numbered apparently 606, as with all the physical planets in all the local universes of all the Superuiverses, are all to ‘play host’ as the book puts it, to varying types of humanity, all who are called collectively ascending sons and daughters of God; meaning we are all to start out life on these material planets, then spiritually ascend as we grow in truth inwards and upwards through Nebadon - the Celestial spheres, then on into the greater Superuniverses, our one being called Orvonton, and then on further growing in truth, light and life through The Central Universe - Havona, and finally to one day arrive on Paradise, there to actually meet our Mother and Father.
So the whole system of Creation is as I said, currently set up to incarnate ascending mortal souls and for them through their experiences of life, starting in flesh and working up through all the spirit levels, to become as it were, one with the God of ALL, upon our arrival on Paradise. Then we are called collectively, so the book says, Finaliters, and in we’ve ‘finally’ (as I understand it) completed the ascension process, then stand ready to embark upon the next amazing part of our life in creation with God.
The book also points out that Paradise is of course Perfect, as Perfect as can be - it being God’s home, where our Mother and Father reside. Then Havona the Grand Central Universe being so close to Paradise is also absolutely perfect. But then as one progresses further and further away from Paradise, and as more and more of universal life is delegated into the hands of higher spirits, so increases the chances of imperfection occurring, with naturally the physical worlds being the most prone to rebellion, they being to date, the furthest from Paradise.
So the Lucifers and the others, were sort of lower down the list, so more susceptible to not staying true to themselves. And so occasionally in the Superuniverses where their level or order are involved they might ‘go astray’, which means, rebel. They rebel against the way of things, so the Lucifers said, no to God, and no to Mary and Jesus, deciding to take matters into their own hands and setting out to influence everyone they were governing to their way of thinking. They came up with the false doctrine of Freedom and Liberation.
But before I continue, it’s important to understand that if we were true, and as we looked naturally to our feelings, we’d naturally uncover the truth of them. And by living in perfect natural love we’d naturally be ascending toward Paradise, with our only having to wake up to all that our feelings were telling us about ourselves, life and God. So that is our ascension or growth or evolution of truth. Then we understand we have been turned against our true selves and natural love expression, by being made to become false and rejecting truth, so we are not ascending, we’re going the opposite way, descending further and further into the negative - truth-denial, so becoming more evil. So we’re progressively turning our backs on ourselves, Mary and Jesus and the Mother and Father. So we have to stop and go back the other way, this being our healing. So you see Wes, our healing is really just about getting us back on track, to becoming perfect so then we can technically actually start our true ascension. However once one does embrace ones healing and start to grow in truth through ones feelings, then yes, one is also embracing ones ascension of truth, it being for us including an extra bit that involves our healing.
The Lucifers and Satans are created Daughters and Sons who grow and evolve in truth by doing their work in helping oversee the ascension of mortal souls. And they had not actually been to Paradise, they had not actually met with Mother and Father in person. So they rely on guidance from Mary and Jesus who tell them and all in their universe of the existence of the Mother and Father; and if one were to stay true to oneself, one would feel God as being real even though one had not met Them.
But for some reason the Lucifers didn’t feel God to be real and true, they moved out of their feelings into their minds, and so came to the belief that Mary and Jesus were making all the God business up; and if that was so, if there was no God, then really we can and should just do as we please - why do we have to do what Mary and Jesus say - and who are they after all?
So they decided: well why can’t we be ‘Gods’, and so they went about saying to any spirit and angel willing to listen, Liberate yourselves, set yourselves Free, you don’t have to keep doing all this work for Gods that don’t even exist. Go out and suit yourselves, do whatever you want to do, and make yourself be as happy as you want - complete rebellion, rebelling against the tyranny they obviously for whatever reasons felt they were subjected to. All of which was in their imagination.
So the Satans agreed with the Lucifers and went to the Caligastias, and Daligastias - who were on Earth by that stage, telling them the ‘good news’, that they were the controllers free to do as pleased, and so being ‘gods’, well you need someone to be gods over, and because you are ‘looking after’ and ‘guiding’ all these ascending mortal souls - mankind, so naturally you should start to make them follow you, turning them away from God and Mary and Jesus.
So humanity was inducted into the Rebellion, and when you look at how we are, how we believe life is all up to us, fuck God, just do as we please, indulge in all our mental pursuits, allurements and pleasures, and just go for it - make as much money as you like and control nature, your children, other people, whatever takes your fancy, and do it all by denying your true feelings, you can see we are wholly living the Rebellion. And we’ve been made to believe it’s the right and only way to live.
The Satania Rebellion which we’re part of, only affected about thirty or so odd planets - I can’t remember the actual number the UB says, with some being more or less affected. It’s a big rebellion compared to previous ones in Mary’s and Jesus universe, but still relative small were numbers of planets are concerned. However we’re up to our eye-balls in it, which is why Mary and Jesus chose to come here, all so they could experience it first hand by being subjected to evil humanity, and also end it on the higher spiritual levels. So by Jesus saying ‘Satan get thee behind me’ or whatever he said, that was his assertion of his higher authority declaring the Rebellion on the higher spiritual levels was over. The Satans and Lucifers being incarcerated on a prison world (sphere) in spirit.
But although that stopped those higher spirits negatively influencing us, still the Caligastias and Daligastias (they having moved back into spirit soon after the rebellion began) were at large although without the same power as they had. And so it’s for the Avonals to come and deal with them for once and for all. Which I might add, apparently has happened, and so now we humanity are left with the legacies of these higher spirits Rebellion, which we have to heal.
As the book says, it’s been greatly speculated as to why such higher spirits might rebel, but it must be something within their makeup, just like in us all, that made them susceptible, and so they did. I would say it’s all part of the natural range and variation of personality, and of course the Mother and Father wanted such rebellion because we all have to in the end understand about love and no love. And if the Mother and Father are continually giving us, their creations, more power and control, more freedom to experience things, so it’s natural to conclude that as more of Creation comes into being, Creation further out for the seven Superuniverses, then there will be more rebellion with the ‘influence of God’ being less and less obvious and discernible, just as what the Lucifers demonstrated.
I see that we humanity are in some ways an example of the forerunners of many future humanities that will experience rebellion, all so we can all as Creation understand and see and experience for ourselves the whole range of what love actually is - so we can understand what love is, and what no-love is. So we’re starting our ascension by first experiencing what no-love is, and having to sort all that rebellion out within ourselves.
One last thing, as to why the angels rebelled, angels by their nature of design are created to first serve souls of truth - higher and lower daughters and sons of truth. So angels serve us, as they served the Lucifers and the other Evil Ones. So a lot of the angels chose to stay loyal to those higher spirits who rebelled by joining them in their rebellion, hence their Falling from Grace - fallen angels.
So you could imagine what it might have been like in the olden days with rebellious angels and the higher Daughters and Sons all negative affecting primitive man. It would have been so easy to pretend to be some four headed monster scaring the wits out of the tribes all so as to get them to be how you want them to be. So many of the myths primitive cultures have come from these fallen angels and higher spirits negative influencing them, and basically, making such tribes worship these Fallen Ones. So such stories of the Nephilim and ‘alien beings’ and their having superior powers - so like moving huge carved stones into neatly grooved places - influencing mankind, stem from these problems. All of which was then further complicated by the Default of the Material Pari - Eve and Adam, but I won’t go into that now.
But as of Jesus and Mary’s coming, all the fallen angels were confined, no longer allowed to negatively influence mankind, with many of them since repenting off their sins - however an angel does that and whatever that involves. So once again, it’s just ourselves and the mind spirits who are continuing on in rebellion, all negative affecting each other. And so unless we do our healing, we’ll never release ourselves from such an anti-truth state of mind and will; we will never get out of the mind mansion worlds; never be able to move into the Celestial spheres with our souls transformed by the Divine Love; and so never actually set out on our ascension to Paradise.
And if you are like Marion who doesn’t care about any of this, and is only interested in how it makes her feel, that’s all that matters, because as we understand, it’s all through our feelings that we can finally escape the control of our rebellious minds. And so it’s true, that the truth will set us free, but only as we look to our feelings for it, because we can’t find any truth in a rebellious mind.
For interest and thanks to Geoff from the Divine Love forums, I’ve included his summary of Creation in the Urantia Book. Just to give you some feeling for the enormity of it all.
From Geoff... It seems we may have 7,000,000,000,000 inhabited planets. This is what the Urantia Book says:
(165.6) 15:2.1 Only the Universal Father knows the location and actual number of inhabited worlds in space; he calls them all by name and number. I can give only the approximate number of inhabited or inhabitable planets, for some local universes have more worlds suitable for intelligent life than others. Nor have all projected local universes been organised. Therefore the estimates which I offer are solely for the purpose of affording some idea of the immensity of the material creation.
(166.1) 15:2.2 There are seven superuniverses in the grand universe, and they are constituted approximately as follows:
(166.2) 15:2.3 1. The System. The basic unit of the supergovernment consists of about one thousand inhabited or inhabitable worlds. Blazing suns, cold worlds, planets too near the hot suns, and other spheres not suitable for creature habitation are not included in this group. These one thousand worlds adapted to support life are called a system, but in the younger systems only a comparatively small number of these worlds may be inhabited. Each inhabited planet is presided over by a Planetary Prince, and each local system has an architectural sphere as its headquarters and is ruled by a System Sovereign.
(166.3) 15:2.4 2. The Constellation. One hundred systems (about 100,000 inhabitable planets) make up a constellation. Each constellation has an architectural headquarters sphere and is presided over by three Vorondadek Sons, the Most Highs. Each constellation also has a Faithful of Days in observation, an ambassador of the Paradise Trinity.
(166.4) 15:2.5 3. The Local Universe. One hundred constellations (about 10,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a local universe. Each local universe has a magnificent architectural headquarters world and is ruled by one of the co-ordinate Creator Sons of God of the order of Michael. Each universe is blessed by the presence of a Union of Days, a representative of the Paradise Trinity.
(166.5) 15:2.6 4. The Minor Sector. One hundred local universes (about 1,000,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a minor sector of the superuniverse government; it has a wonderful headquarters world, wherefrom its rulers, the Recents of Days, administer the affairs of the minor sector. There are three Recents of Days, Supreme Trinity Personalities, on each minor sector headquarters.
(166.6) 15:2.7 5. The Major Sector. One hundred minor sectors (about 100,000,000,000 inhabitable worlds) make one major sector. Each major sector is provided with a superb headquarters and is presided over by three Perfections of Days, Supreme Trinity Personalities.
(166.7) 15:2.8 6. The Superuniverse. Ten major sectors (about 1,000,000,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a superuniverse. Each superuniverse is provided with an enormous and glorious headquarters world and is ruled by three Ancients of Days.
(166.8) 15:2.9 7. The Grand Universe. Seven superuniverses make up the present organized grand universe, consisting of approximately seven trillion inhabitable worlds plus the architectural spheres and the one billion inhabited spheres of Havona. The superuniverses are ruled and administered indirectly and reflectively from Paradise by the Seven Master Spirits. The billion worlds of Havona are directly administered by the Eternals of Days, one such Supreme Trinity Personality presiding over each of these perfect spheres.
(167.1) 15:2.10 Excluding the Paradise-Havona spheres, the plan of universe organization provides for the following units:
Yes Wes, I doubt I could say what they are. Everything always seems so confusing: I feel like nothing has changed, I'm just as miserable and unhappy as I've always been… yet then again, I don't feel so miserable and unhappy, feeling even good about all that's happening. I feel so unloved and like shit, and yet I also feel deeper within me that I'm no longer as I was, I have and I am changing, and even in some ways feeling what might be love. When I write such things as with the Mother and Father I was in my very miserable state, but then once the pressure eases off, I feel better about myself, even though I see more how fucked I am. So many seemingly contradictory feelings. I am changing, I know that, but I couldn't put into words how. And although so often I feel so bored and fed up with it all, so sick of feeling bad, still something comes up that shows me I've even changed and progressed in that thing since yesterday.
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
James how long did it take you to totally crash after praying for Divine Love? And how did you search the problem out? Some followers pray for it over 15 to 20 years and are still at it. Crash is the only way I can describe it.
It happened about two years after I’d been praying for the Divine Love - I think, everything is a bit hazy now from back then. I’ve written it down somewhere in my writings.
Along with my brother we organised a Divine Love group, once a week meetings, and with a number of lovely people it went well for those years. But then it just sort of ran its course fizzing out as did I fizz out. I was having personal relationship difficulties, nothing was going as I wanted and expected it to - the group just wasn’t getting bigger with more people wanting to know about the Divine Love.
I was questioning a lot of things, Mary and the Mother had come to me and some things no longer added up in The Urantia Book and Padgett Messages. Such as, how do we actually heal, because the Divine Love sure wasn’t taking all my problems away, and if anything I was feeling worse about everything, not better. And what about the whole feminine thing, it was very clear from our Divine Love group that women were just as capable as men, if not better, in all aspects of longing and speaking with the spirits and wanting to grow in truth, so why weren’t they give more say in the PM. And I was sinking down into some sort of darkness, not being lifted up into the light like what had happened when I first started out with the Divine Love group.
Then I was living alone and had what I’d call now something of minor mental breakdown. I told the Father as I’d not fully embraced the Mother as I have now, She’d only come on and off to me up until then, that I give up, that I didn’t know what to do and I couldn’t go on as I was going. I begged Him to show me what to do - what was the TRUTH and how did one really live with Him - do His will. I was still of the mind that one had to go out there and tell everyone the good news, and that God would in some way tell me what to do - when and where to go.
I felt very miserable and depressed because I’d hinged my career on the ‘spiritual stuff’ working out, it was all I wanted to do - teach people about the Divine Love and all I understood. But it wasn’t happening, I was supposed to be - wasn’t I God? - rising up in the Light, and yet I felt like a jibbering mess. Funnily enough, not unlike I still feel today. So I have a made any progress at all?
Around that time I tried to start another Divine Love group, but it didn’t last long, I felt I couldn’t go on doing the same stuff as I had done even thought that was all I wanted to do - I was very confused.
Also around that time I met Marion. I’d pretty much cut myself off from everyone in the first group, preferring to be alone, but as she had such an instant grasp and feel for all that was in the PM she was reading, we quickly saw we had a lot in common, at least on that level.
We moved out of the places we were living in looking to live together. I was still full of all my fantasies about the Divine Love, as in, what I hoped it would do for me and what I wanted to do with it. She helped me to face the reality that I wasn’t dealing with my true feelings - just all the normal life stuff. She helped me to see that I was blocking so much of my feelings out and all I thought about love and loving wasn’t at all true. She had ideas about working on herself to become true, which sounded good to me, helping me understand about the importance of our childhood and how we mostly blocked all of that pain out. She was the Father answering my prayers for help.
After a few months of being with her, it started to dawn on me that there was a HUGE side to it that was missing, that hadn’t been - for whatever reasons - talked about in the UB or PM. And the ‘healing’ just evolved from there.
So I don’t think my ‘crash’ was a drastic or substantial as that sounds, it was more that I reached the end of where I could go with the Divine Love by using it to further my evilness - that I know see clearly, it only taking me the best part of fifteen years to work out.
Now when I look back and compare myself with my brother and others in the Divine Love group, I think what happened to me was I wholly gave myself over the ‘process’ not knowing what it was. I wanted the truth, that much I understood, and deep within me I’d resolved to find it no matter what, which meant to give up everything, even my life, to smash myself apart, to be taken into the depths of hell - whatever it took. And in my longing for the Love and Truth, that’s where I always was approaching it from. I felt unhappy and scared, and knew that until I stopped feeling those feelings there was still things wrong in me, so whatever it took, shitting myself that horrible things would happen to me, but fuck it, I couldn’t go on as I was, I prayed to God to bring it on: I want to heal myself completely.
I don’t know how the other people back then felt about the truth, but what’s become clear is how important wanting the truth of yourself is, and although many people back then said yes that’s what they wanted, I can see now in retrospect they only wanted it conditionally and really just so they could get on and have a better life in all that life is out there. They didn’t want to give that all up and look for a new way to live, something that didn’t exist, which was what I always felt I’d have to do once I read the PM.
You know Wes, looking back as I have written this, I did all the channeling of spirits, I had all sorts of incredible experiences with them, all sorts of universal personalities coming to me and telling me things or just doing things to my spiritual system. And I read what people have and are currently channeling in the Divine Love groups and New Age ones, and I did and said all that. But with you, Desire and Samantha, all you have written on the forum about your feelings and all you’re going through, nowhere in any of the groups or with anyone other than Marion did I come across anything like what you are saying and experiencing, and certainly not in any Divine Love circle. And I used to worry that if people started to do their healing, would they be able to deal with all the intense psychological stuff along with so many bad feelings, and what would happen to their relationships, and what if people started it and it was too much hurting them and fucking them up even more. But with every post I feel better and better about what you’re all going through; and so together with all Marion and I have been through, I feel increasingly sure about it all. And seeing we are all ‘looked after’ through the process. However until I heal myself completely I won’t be a 100% certain, but every day now I feel like I’m homing in getting closer and closer to... something... some final knowing of truth about it all?
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
I keep thinking how it would be and feel being finally healed. Did you ever asked Jesus or Mary M about their characteristics as far as theirs smiles, their stature, how they attracted so many people. Their stamina, who they attracted. Or that is something you think they will not answer.
I haven’t asked them specifically such questions Wes, however from what they’ve told me about themselves, they drew to themselves those people first of all who were looking sincerely for the truth, and then those people who were needed in some way to be part of all they came to do on Earth. And their being perfect meant they had all the stamina and inner resources to do what they needed to do. Is that what you’re asking?
What I want to ask you Wes, is what do you really want to do - I mean, if you were free to do as you pleased, what deep down inside do you feel you’d like to do? And why would you like to do it?
Do you have any idea as to why you keep thinking how it would be to be finally healed? Any inkling as to what is going on somewhere inside you seeking to be expressed - or, released?
Uncover the truth through your feelings, and you're FREE!
Hi James. I've been doing some reading this last couple of days and also one of the things I would like to be more proficient in. As I'm being more filled with feelings it helps me in my reading. I really want deeply to find who I truly am. Not that conditioned soul my parents created. I never ask questions yet even have anyone respond and answer them before this site. So being a child here is a great experience for me. Because I never had the proper upbringing. Maybe one day I can even smile like a child. I can't tell you how many children I greet during my life but they give me life. I wondered about Jesus and Mary M because maybe they had that glow as a child when you meet them. To many people greet with that fake smile and you can feel it. So that feeling of be healed was there ever since I found your site a child like dream. Better than any American dream out there. I guess that's why my material dreams left me so abruptly. And what a relief that it happened that way. It would of never gave me the answers that I needed. I know the process and all that comes with my feelings and I'm so glad that I can use my feelings in this process. Trying to find the true me also true people to connect with which never did before now. Ongoing with my healing.