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Post by desire2bme on Sept 4, 2014 0:01:17 GMT 10
For those who are able to connect and listen to audio, I found this woman who speaks of how our womb and delivery into this world has profound affects upon our ability to thrive and unfold into all that we are. It opens me up to being less judgmental about the harmful patterns still operating in my life and an even greater willingness to be shown the truth. www.coreawareness.com/podcasts/womb-to-world/#more-4479 |
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Post by James on Sept 4, 2014 20:09:41 GMT 10
Desire, I can’t listen to the woman, however it’s a very potent topic, and so important for us all. I want to summarise some of what I’ve uncovered about my conception and time in the womb and how it’s affected my ability to thrive and develop and would greatly appreciate if you could list some of the things this woman talks about.
I’ve come to understand it ALL happens at conception for us. All that we are, the complete impact of our parents and their genetic lines - physically, emotionally, mentally, psychically, spiritually and on the will level, all happening then. So all the bad we will experience in terms of our becoming evil, is all there in that initial package. Then we outwork it through the womb, the next most important stage as it’s all laid down, all our patterns that form the core of our being. Then our birth and forming years as young children as our will, mind and feeling systems start to take shape in the world; then the remainder of our childhood.
I received a half-brick in the face from the world around three to four years old. However this half-brick so I’ve uncovered through my healing was thrown in my face at conception, all during the womb, at my birth, with the physical receiving of the brick being the symbolic announcement of what life will hold for me. So in various ways from then on I’ve kept receiving bricks in the face, but mostly on the will, emotional, spiritual and psychic levels. EVERY moment with mum, dad in the background, and Gran behind the scenes along with my other grandmother and grandfathers, so I’m becoming slowly aware of was a brick in my face. That is how severe it’s turning out for me, all of which has been very difficult to accept, particularly as I was told and made to believe that I had it a lot better than most. Now I would ask, what does a lot better mean?
My illnesses around seven that nearly killed me were the physical manifestation of my misery from all those years, and in particular from during the womb, the illnesses significantly being at the end of my formative years. And going back ‘into’ them they have shown me so much about what I really felt and how I was treated to make me feel that way.
One of the biggest miseries I’ve felt is to do with not being born properly, being Cesarian delivered. I never got to empower my will to its maximum at that crucial stage in my development, forcing my way into life. I never made up my mind to come. It was all taken out of my hands, as my parents took everything out my hands. So I’ve never really felt like I’m here properly, all tying into my feeling like I have disappeared not wanting to be in the environment of my unloving family. I feel like I was getting myself ready to be born, but suddenly, no, that’s not for you, stop that, and that’s how my life is, I can’t make anything happen for me, no longer even wanting to, and yet always waiting for it to somehow begin.
My healing has taken me into sense-remembering or perceiving what it was like in mum’s womb - even being ‘mum’ in a way right from the beginning. And now as I ‘go back into it’ I want to scream as I feel myself dying, suffocating, not being allowed to have a say, being subjected to all her fear and anxiety that I’ve taken on, giving me such deep seated fears, together with being born with a stomach ulcer. I only have to look at the trauma in my fingernails and feel why I’m biting them to ‘remember’ that horrible time. I have not one single good and loving, peaceful, happy and content feeling memory from being with mum. The ones I believed I had my healing has slaughtered as I was slaughtered.
And then comes my early years, just sit there and be good, never being able to do anything, unable to express good or bad feelings, just don’t have any feelings, don’t express yourself, keep out of the way, don’t bother me, all adding to my disappearing into my mind.
And the most telling part of it all was, which has taken me ages to understand, that I couldn’t leave her in the end, I wasn’t eager to get away from her. I wanted to stay at home, in her house, still in her womb, still scared to death, yet just without her, she being away all the time and only occasionally coming home. And all because she and they and the brick in my face made me wrongly believe the world was even scarier than being at home with her.
And then there is all the rest with dad, he matching mum in the same amount of denial of me but more subtly and harder to write about.
Over the last couple of years most of my healing has been about my feeling back with mum and dad from conception onwards to about three and four years old - my brick in the face time. It’s been so hard to try and feel what really went on, but gradually I’ve felt I’m uncovering the truth of it all, and as I do, each part shows me exactly how that part is still in play now as an adult and has been all through my life. It’s all there. I’ve been able to extrapolate from how I am now back to how I was then, and all in-between; then being back there, extrapolating forward into my adult life. And every day I am in awe of how it has all been there, yet also feel just how bloody obvious it is that all how I am and all how I’ve become is a result of my earliest beginnings - for how could it be any other way?
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 5, 2014 2:42:03 GMT 10
At some point, James, I may do some summarizing for those who don't have access to listen to this. When I placed the audio here on the forum, it came to me that you might ask me to share for you what was in it. At that time I began to feel the struggle in myself of not wanting to disappoint another and do what it takes to relay good and helpful information whenever anyone asks for it from me. It is that wonderful deep wound of mine wanting to be of service to others despite what my gut says it needs to do for itself. I have easily succumbed to the false feel good emotions of being a very good, caring and loving person for sharing the truth that I am learning with another. As this opportunity has come up here as you now did make a request for me to take the time to relay what was in the audio, I have done the work already inside to allow my true feelings to help me know what I want to do or not do.
The bribery voices I have learned from inside that have kept my NO from being able to be said tell me, "You are responsible to give to anyone who asks you for information that could lead them to see what they now can not. It is your job and if you don't do it, you don't care about them and they won't be given what they need. You are creating problems for them by withholding what you don't want to take the time to give them. What? Do you think you are only here to drink in the truth for yourself?! How SELFISH of you to think you would be given anything for your own very personal use! No, darling, anything you are given is for others. You are simply the in between one, yes like a piece of machinery that relays information, that is all we need you for. So when another asks of you, you have no choice. This is what you are for. Too bad if you had other things you are working through and taking care of within yourself. Do as you have been told. Set yourself and your own needs aside and take care of others...OR ELSE!"
And I say, "OR ELSE FUCKING WHAT!!!!! I may disappoint the one only asking a simple request of me? I may make mad the little boy in them wanting me to be their caring nurturing mother figure? And how is that a bad thing...to use this situation to unmask further my need to be the nurturing mother while as I do that I have to thumb my nose at THE NURTURING MOTHER who IS his mother. I have believed your load of shit of taking the responsibility for being THE MOTHER for long enough. And if in my listening to my own soul MOTHER I find that I need say no to someone asking of me, it is SHE who I desire to live true with...no matter where the chips fall. And while I am FUCKING at it, I choose to let you know that I am also working through my needing to project mother and father onto any others and feeling through all of why I have desired to continue to do that, despite how much longing I have been doing to know my true Soul Parents. And I am seeing my great fear of being rejected when saying my No's and others seeing me as selfish. And I am willing to feel all of this darkness and pain and closets and closets of fear that come with growing beyond this YUK!"
All that to say...thanks for being James and bringing this all up for me to see. Today it's a no. Nothing in me desires to lift a finger to oblige your request and I want to make all the room for this NO to be without manipulating or bribing my own self into being a Good Girl for you.
Thanks for all you did share here about what you have learned from allowing investigation into your own womb to world experience. It is heavy duty full proof whisky shit right here as you say and as I am seeing this I open wider to want to know all of the truth about my whole life.
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Post by James on Sept 5, 2014 19:39:24 GMT 10
Good for you Desire standing up for your feelings. I support you 100%. And you’re not letting me down nor are you making me feel bad nor do I hate you or think you’re a yuk person and not my friend because you said no to me. In fact it’s the other way round, I admire you more for saying no and staying true to your feelings and seeing what happens - what comes up in you.
This morning I had another of my ‘going back’ into my early life experiences. This time I could see how mum made me stay with my younger brother and sister when they were toddling and starting to get up and running in their lives. I had to in a way retard myself, like staying back in the same class to be with and look after them instead of going up with my classmates. I have had to put myself down, allowing them to come up and even pass me, all until they were well on their way, and then it was my turn to start living my life, but I was too fucked by then. More anger and misery, feeling so crippled and left behind - everyone else could go out there into their lives except me.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 6, 2014 6:14:39 GMT 10
"I never made up my mind to come. It was all taken out of my hands, as my parents took everything out my hands. So I’ve never really felt like I’m here properly, all tying into my feeling like I have disappeared not wanting to be in the environment of my unloving family."
How you write this James is exactly what this lady described in the audio as what IMPRINTED us and keeps us living in it's trance...until we feel through it all and find ourselves awake outside of it. As I decided that for me, in my marriage, I needed to be able to take sex off of the table to move into my next place of opening up to more feeling safe to feel, it felt so good to make up my mind to do that. Just last night I asked my husband how he felt when I made that decision and he said it made him feel very angry. Since that early reaction, he also said that he is convinced it is what he needs as well but that he would never have been the one to initiate things in this direction. I know that for him, his initial anger brought up all of the times his mother made decisions without consulting hime, asking him what he wanted. There is SO MUCH shit in your phrase "It was all taken out of my hands." When our lives have been taken out of our hands, we are NOT here properly. We have learned the trance of giving all of our power away to the higher authorities...who ever falls in that category for us...and then live pissed at them for what they decide about our lives as they tell us who we are and what we can and can not do based on what? The log in their own eye, that's what. It is not a very fun trance, but oh the wisdom and true compassion that flows on the other side of feeling all of our pain surrounding this through!
"This time I could see how mum made me stay with my younger brother and sister when they were toddling and starting to get up and running in their lives. I had to in a way retard myself, like staying back in the same class to be with and look after them instead of going up with my classmates. I have had to put myself down, allowing them to come up and even pass me, all until they were well on their way, and then it was my turn to start living my life"
As I read this, I think of some of the responses I have read as you take in what we share on the forums. I have felt you as this older brother as I begin toddling and becoming more sure of my own steps. I have often wondered why you view our take offs and leaps in our unknowns the way you do. But reading about this pattern that was imprinted in you as a child...it makes a bit more sense to me. It seems no matter how beautiful of work you do or insight or break through you have, there is this need to put yourself down, saying how much more shit you have to go through instead of feeling towards yourself what you do with the rest of us here. I hear you more and more see that none of the work we do and share here is your responsibility...that we don't need you and again I see this imprint slowly falling away. Not your job, your responsibility to make the way for anyone else and it is when you are simply sharing your own personal experience that I am most deeply impacted by you. When you put yourself first instead of concerning yourself with insuring we all have our shoes tied so we won't be tripping over our shoe strings.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 6, 2014 13:34:36 GMT 10
One of the imprints I am seeing I believe comes from my birth day. When ever I have an appt. I am always feeling anxious about being on time and want to get there at least 10 minutes early. So the other morning I got up and didn't have to be to my appt. until 1 in the afternoon...no problem, so much time, plenty of time, no need to rush. Yet, if I am in touch with how I feel, I am already feeling anxious. Why? Well, if this pattern has to do with my mother's feelings on the day I was born, it makes more sense to me.
What happens is I lose track of the time and by the time I look at the clock, I see that I do have to rush now if I want to make it, getting there the 10 minutes early. So as I am driving, I am feeling uncomfortable, uneasy almost with a foreboding feeling and as soon as I see the building where my appt. is, I begin to feel relieved. I've made it and the anxiety dissolves.
I was sharing this womb to world information with my massage therapist as she was working on my back and heard myself telling her about how I felt about coming into the world. I did not want to come out. There was already too much chaos that I felt from being in her womb, but at least I was protected in there from everyone outside of it. It was safer in there than I felt it would be landing into the already established dynamics of a family of 10 siblings and a mother trying to stop her husband from drinking. No, don't make me come out, please don't make me! What I also heard myself saying as I was laying there on the massage table is that I am beginning to feel the desire to move out into the world again...that I know that chaos is part of it, but I also am feeling a new personal grounding in myself that no one can touch...it's under my control. It surprised me when I heard that coming out of my mouth and at the same time, I thought...yes, this is true...I do want this.
I don't quite understand why, but as I get a better sense of how impersonal to me these imprints are and how they get embedded, the work of welcoming and feeling through all of the feelings that come with them doesn't feel like such hard labor. Don't get me wrong, while I am in the awful, scary, painfulness of the feeling it completely sucks, but I know what not wasting this suffering leads to...more of my ability to feel the real me and get to know what has been covered up by all of these imprints.
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Post by James on Sept 6, 2014 22:45:55 GMT 10
“I have often wondered why you view our take offs and leaps in our unknowns the way you do. But reading about this pattern that was imprinted in you as a child...it makes a bit more sense to me.”
As you rightly see Desire, my feeling so happy with your take offs and leaps is strongly connected to this pattern, but even far more deeply than even I know, as more about it has just dawned on me.
You know it’s an interesting thing and I don’t quite know how to write it, but from what I’ve observed in myself and Marion, all the worst patterns in us, as we’ve fully allowed ourselves to submit to them, have, once we’ve released all the repressed pain, feelings and emotion and uncovered the whole truth we are to see of them, still remained, only being activated in a positive sense. For example. As I’ve written about before, I’ve come to understand that my parents not connecting with me and preventing me from reaching out to them and others meant I withdrew into an inner fantasy world, laying down negative patterns creating the false life I’ve always lived concurrently with the reality of daily life. So stripping back my fantasy life, liberating all the feelings of why I needed to do it and how painful it was having been made to it, uncovering all the truth I’ve seen, then the pattern still exists for through it is how I connect with and relate to the spirits and unseen worlds. So it’s like the pattern is not actually wrong, it is what I am to have had all along, it is me, yet it was only activated in the negative and I went with it that way, but now I’m moving to go with in the positive. I did think that as I healed my negative patterns I’d no longer for example have the need to talk with spirits, it being only part of my negative escape, but now I’m tending to think, as it is my pattern, it will always be part of something I do, only I’ll not use it to escape, only using it to... in whatever way my positive mind and will shall work.
So I wonder: do my bad patterns actually go being replaced by new good ones, one circuit trashed and seen for how wrong and evil it is, whilst a new loving one is installed? Or is more a transformation: I am all the patterns, so all I’m really doing is moving from the negative to the positive in them. I don’t know about this fully - it’s still a new thought for me, but what you’ve said today helps me move along some more in it.
“It seems no matter how beautiful of work you do or insight or break through you have, there is this need to put yourself down, saying how much more shit you have to go through instead of feeling towards yourself what you do with the rest of us here.” I do this partly on purpose and partly because it is my pattern. The on purpose part is to keep the pressure on myself because I am so easily inclined to go off on a tangent and delude myself that I’m feeling better than I am, only to be crunched again and made to see that I was denying my bad feelings again. It’s happened so many times that I now try to keep myself in the negative, it all part of allowing myself to express that side of myself more freely, getting used to and gaining a feeling for it as I’ve never done it.
And the other part I came to realise was: I imagine in some ways that my healing is like going down in an elevator, down into the rotten depths to the evil core of me. And on the way down I don’t want to get off before the bottom again deluding myself that I’m healed, or I’ve worked through those patterns and I’m no longer subject to them. As I tend to look at it all through the intellect, it’s very easy for me to get off the elevator and start to think that things aren’t so bad, that things are in fact good because of seeing all the things I’ve seen intellectually. It’s so easy for me to think things are okay because I’m not feeling so bad for a moment or day, then tending to forget that I’m still fucked and there is more buried deeper within me. So I don’t want to slip back into compartmentalising and conceptualising myself in all I go through, trying to keep ‘working out this healing thing’ by using only my mind, all whilst using all that to ignore other feelings that I’m not aware of are there, but they are - as Marion keeps helping me to see.
Also, being with Marion I have a first hand example of someone who is basically only feelings, and someone who simply keeps submitting to them, which really means just allowing them to come of their own accord with absolutely no interference of them. And to see how she is being taken into what I think can only amount to death - death by following her feelings. Every week I think, surely she can’t suffer more than this, and yet every week she goes deeper, and I’m following her. Over the last couple of years I’ve thought numerous times, this is it, she’s on the way out, it’s all going to end now with her croaking it. And over the last couple of weeks I’m looking at death as far as I can see it - not that I’ve actually been with someone who’s died. So we have a lot in our lives currently to not feel good about. All of which is keeping the fear and worry strong within us.
And I still bite my nails - one of my compulsions. And they are the sign to me that it’s not over yet, that I can’t let up on myself, I have to keep longing for the truth of my yuk. Marion doesn’t live it as if she would ever let up, she just is it. But part of my problem is I feel like my healing is not really my real life, just another trial and chore I have to go through and basically endure, so wishing it would come to an end - and haven’t I done enough? And I know I have to get to the point where I am like Marion, it just is what it is, no end or beginning, it’s just me doing me, living me, without the need for a label called ‘my healing’.
Today I was feeling how my whole beginning, all the time in the womb, was fear, dread and total anxiety. It’s my whole pattern. I have been scared of everything one can possibly be scared of, or so that’s how it seems. And my nail-biting is a physical display of my fear and worry and my trying to do something about it - at least I can bite my nails instead of just being in FEAR all the time. At least I can pretend I am not scared by having something I can do to take my mind off my fear easing the tension for a moment.
So I know I still have a long way to go and I’m not looking for the exits - at least not trying to, as still unconsciously I am. So I’ll keep the pressure on myself.
And how does my putting myself down make you feel Desire, does it anger you?
As an aside, something I don’t want to generalise too much about, but when I was in America the whole upbeat feeling American’s had was new to me, it was quite incredible, even giving me the feeling anything was possible, that I could do anything I wanted over there. And they were all so supportive and encouraging and so ready and more than willing to help in any way possible, all seeming to love something and someone succeeding no matter how mad the idea. Whereas coming back to Melbourne (Sydney to me has more of an ‘American’ feel to it), I felt, and have always felt, it of course being the home of my repression and abuse, like I’ve had a ton of concrete dropped on me that I’ve got to drag around everywhere I go. And nothing is upbeat in my world, nothing is supportive, all far more British based with a heavy cutting oneself down. And then when I lived in London, I was appalled by how dark and dreary I experienced it all to be. It was not like the concrete had been dropped on me, but like I was perpetually wading through a sludge of it. Of course these are only my subjective experiences based on my yuk, and no doubt other people experience such places differently, but it all ties in with my healing and my heritage having British ancestry, growing up in such a pathetic British colony founded on the unwanted rubbish that: ‘had to be put somewhere’.
I liked this Desire, it’s a good picture. “I hear you more and more see that none of the work we do and share here is your responsibility...that we don't need you and again I see this imprint slowly falling away. Not your job, your responsibility to make the way for anyone else and it is when you are simply sharing your own personal experience that I am most deeply impacted by you. When you put yourself first instead of concerning yourself with insuring we all have our shoes tied so we won't be tripping over our shoe strings.”
You’ve got no idea of the responsibility I have felt. I’ve not as yet revealed all about Divine Love Spirituality, there’s still a huge chunk that as yet I don’t know whether or not is true, both for me personally and in the bigger picture. And with every day you three keep on with your healing and by what you say, so one part of this huge chunk is being proven. I feel in many ways like I’ve undertaken a scientific experiment based largely on myself. Now you three are helping me to prove my conclusions, which is why I am so thrilled when you uncover truths that I’m as yet to see being uncovered anywhere else in all my spiritual and religious investigations. I love being involved on the cutting edge, and as Verna said, I still don’t fully appreciate or fathom what is actually transpiring, and half the time I daren’t hope that it might actually be ‘going down’ (I hope how I’ve written that is actually the meaning I want to convey). To think that people can after all this time actually heal themselves of their evilness, it’s incredible, wonderful, amazing - staggering. To think that humanity might actually be starting in this very small way to put the brakes on slowing down its headlong rush into hell. And it’s only a very small percentage of just how incredible it might be if it all keeps going. But until I finish my healing, well a lot of it is only my speculation, and possibly even just more of my fantasy.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 7, 2014 8:32:39 GMT 10
"keep the pressure on myself because I am so easily inclined to go off on a tangent and delude myself that I’m feeling better than I am, only to be crunched again and made to see that I was denying my bad feelings again. It’s happened so many times that I now try to keep myself in the negative"
It makes me sad that you put yourself down, James. It brings up for me how I stopped enjoying myself as a person believing I needed to be perfect (without any evil) in order to be acceptable and enjoyed. I learned to hate and mistrust myself and then needed to put those outside of me in charge of telling me if I was "getting it" or if I was "off track." I was addicted to self betrayal and it became a vice for me to be able to have a feeling of being in control. It is one thing to be alert and to be staying open, knowing there are many many many veils of error still waiting to be exposed to us and another thing to feel that staying in the negative could ever be some way of control we could use to not slip and slide around. Fear of going on tangents...when you wrote that I realized that by having gone on tangents, some of my best learning has been done. Sooner or later when there is error, I have to have my fill of it and that's why I see tangents as blessed.
It also makes me feel sad that you compare your own healing process to Marion's and seem to always come up short. I am a believer that we attract the partner who is on the same level of emotional woundedness...I have never seen a couple who this hasn't been true of. I am also seeing with my own healing that there is a balance I am being led into...a dance of balancing the actual feeling work, being in the feelings from an hour to day to week to month around a certain root issue and then watching the shift happen where all kinds of integration is happening. For me as this integration goes on, what you call all of the psychology of it comes to me in a very personal way...its the truth that follows on the other side of the feeling work. To me it is both the feminine and the masculine sides working together. As you describe you and Marion, I view how you compare your process to Marion's as not valuing the natural masculine way that you work through things. And me feeling sad is about your selling yourself short if you choose to dishonor it and think it wrong or bad or something that deviously will take you off course.
It all also continues to help bring up how worthless my mother truly felt, but hid from herself and all of us kids. She could never bear to be seen as imperfect and she always pointed at my imperfect father as "the problem" of the family pain. She really put on a good show of it, too (because she was hypnotized and believed it). To this day my mother is worshipped and as I work through all of the betrayal I saw go on between she and my father and them and myself and now myself and others and let's not forget my own self- betrayal, I am the odd duck of the dozen of us to see that bringing all this betrayal to light (and feeling through all of the feelings that come with it ) heals. It is only very recently that I awoke out the same trance my mother lived...feeling the need to appear perfect/better than and living on my high horse over my husband who I thought I was so far beyond spiritually. I now believe that it is those like me who became care takers and rescuers of others that are the last to wake up...thinking we were not affected as deeply as the others who lived with two parents equally living in denial.
I believe the really heavy duty fear that we do feel, has to do with what "feels like" betraying our own mothers( by seeing through her protective masks of being perfect and living the martyrs life). It is a fear that keeps most people foundationally stuck no matter what other feeling work they try to do. We don't want to do to others what has hurt us so badly...being betrayed. But in truth, when we recognize our own denial systems from learning from the denials that our parents never grew out of, we are not betraying them, but finally accepting them in the true soul conditions that they were living (and giving up our fairy tale dream of them "loving" us even if love meant being betrayed.)
I also am seeing lately how as I disconnect from being in my much loved position of being the one who can tell my husband how he is really doing, my own soul work has revved up to bring me out of more blind spots. I see and feel all of the energy I was unconsciously and consciously investing in being his way-shower and am using it all on Me, Me, Me. The roots of it all goes back to where everything else does...in how I wanted to fool myself and see my mother and father in the roles they played out so well for me year after year after year. I so wanted to believe as my mother taught me...it's all the man's fault, while us females hands are squeaky clean. Ugh!
At the end of my day, I have been confronted by a quote that challenges my own addiction to perfection...it is amazing to me how subtle this addiction in my life has been:
"Perfection is static, unlike life which is constantly changing and moving. Therefore, perfection is more closely related to death than it is to life, and the pursuit of perfection can be seen as the unconscious pursuit of death." -M. Woodman
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Post by James on Sept 8, 2014 21:43:06 GMT 10
I put myself down because I was put down, and by striving to live true to my bad feelings, so will continue to put myself down as that’s how I feel. And when I no longer need to put myself down because I no longer am putting myself down, all the patterns having changed, the truth seen and the bad feelings gone, then I will no longer put myself down.
I never outwardly put myself down, it has been an eye-opener to discover that I do, that my behaviour in fact shows it. So I am progressively doing so as it comes up and as I live true to such feelings. And although I put myself down in some ways, in other ways I am putting myself up as my healing progresses, and these ways I know are true as they are very new for me, like I’m becoming a whole different person in the feelings of them. So the better I feel about myself the more I put myself down in the bad parts of myself that still remain, and that in fact I need to feel increasingly good about myself to be able to feel increasingly bad.
And it’s the same as comparing myself to Marion and coming up short, because I am coming up short. I came up short so far as my parents were concerned but that too was all hidden and disguised in my false male mental ego of superiority. So being a man I don’t want to live the contrived wrong male life I was living, and by moving more with Marion allows me to access and bring more to the fore my feminine side, which I relate to as my feeling-expressive side, which was all but non existent. So the truth is I am coming up short, I have always come up short, I could never compete with my mother, she dominated me too much, so I want to live true to those bad feelings and BE THEM, not push them aside through any intellectual understanding, just move with the feelings. And when I have finished with them, then I will move to bring myself up and stop comparing myself. But you telling me such things all amounts to you not allowing me to be as I feel I want to be. And if I want to put myself down for eternity and compare myself to Marion and come up short that’s what I will do, and it’s none of anyone’s business even if everyone else feels sorry for me and can see how I’m making things worse for myself by indulging in my bad feelings using them as an escape and refusing to come out in the world by not allowing myself to feel good.
I use my bad feelings as a barrier to the world, I have done so all the way along, they’ve got me out of the firing line in many situations, but what I don’t want to do is try and control myself - how I feel, in any way, so tell myself such things as I should praise myself like I praise you all, and I should be happy for myself as I am happy for you all when you have good breakthroughs. I want to be unconditional with my bad feelings, and if I am to indulge in them to the point of their extinguishing my soul, then so be it - that’s what I will feel. And it’s easy to write this now, but it’s been terribly difficult for me, and still is, to just allow myself to go down this bad-feeling road without applying my mind to soften the blow and make things easier by pretending they are when they are not.
If we were having a more intimate relationship with you Desire you might point out to me that I am putting myself down and telling me what you think and feel about that and what I should do. You might tell me that you don’t think I should do it, pointing out positives I might have. And we could discuss it all so that I might agree with you, understanding how you see me. But then comes the danger for me. How I have been is I would then take what you said and use that to bolster my self-esteem at the expense of allowing myself to move deeper into my feelings of putting myself down, thereby further denying myself. So I would need you, if I couldn’t do it myself, to help me having understood what you’ve told me about myself, to then stay focused on the bad feelings of it all. So seeing that I do that with my mind having been told by you or someone else is one thing, but it’s still irrelevant concerning my ongoing need to keep moving into and allowing all the bad feelings of my feeling poorly about myself to come up. So I would like you to help me to keep speaking about how bad I feel in it all. And if you didn’t, I would have to fight you off, telling you to back off, and say, so what about my low self-esteem, it’s no concern of yours, they are my bad feelings and I NEED to keep feeling them right to the end of time, all so I can uncover the truth of myself for myself through my own bad feelings. All whilst keeping my mind or anyone else’s out of it as much as possible. And if the truth turns out to be that I have low self-esteem and am always putting myself down as you said, at least I will also know why I am this way and how it’s all come about to do with my early relationships. The whole key to it being: I WILL KNOW, for myself and through my own feelings, and not because someone else has told me.
So for me warning lights start to flash when you start talking about the psychology of it, because the psychology, although still being a necessary part of understanding it all, is a secondary thing to allowing yourself to just BE as bad as you feel all the time. I don’t want any mental understanding to take me away from my feelings. I used to, I would battle away against Marion trying to see what was wrong with her on the psychological level, and she would say stop interfering with me, leave me alone, I don’t want to know what you think about me, I want to just keep feeling as bad as I do so I can keep bringing up my bad feelings - that is ONLY what it important, as I want them all to come out of me. The psychology of it all is secondary and can come later, but AFTER I’ve allowed myself to BE ALL I AM FEELING.
"Perfection is static, unlike life which is constantly changing and moving. Therefore, perfection is more closely related to death than it is to life, and the pursuit of perfection can be seen as the unconscious pursuit of death." -M. Woodman
I completely disagree with this quote. God is Perfection. God is Perfect. Is God static - I don’t know, possibly on a purely existential level, but then again on that level, what is static when there is only BEING. And God being perfect is not dying. God is all life, all living. We are to attain perfection - once we are healed, then forevermore grow in perfection. Becoming increasingly more perfect. Which I know doesn’t make sense, but that’s how I relate to it. And the whole longing for the truth of ourselves is to attain perfection, it might be death of our evilness, but hey, I don’t think anyone is going to care about that. I think M. Woodman is possibly referring to perfection attained by mind alone, as in the negative state of mind we are in, and then I would agree that to perfect evil is the ultimate death - and possibly even the only way to really die, as in ones soul ceasing to be. But I’m only interested in perfection of soul and living the perfection of truth to attain that soul perfection, and to me that is fully liberating ourselves so we can be free and live life to its fullest.
Also Desire, you said “I am a believer that we attract the partner who is on the same level of emotional woundedness...I have never seen a couple who this hasn't been true of.” And yes I would have to say that’s what Marion and I are finding more and more about ourselves. We had nothing in common other than the Divine Love, and a desire to become true and perfect, and then to do our healing as we understood more about that, but nothing else. Had we met before neither of us would have been interested in the other. And from my side of things, as I’ve stripped my falseness away it is true what you’re saying, incredibly I have suffered so many things like Marion has so we can relate equally to each other, which also is leading us closer to each other the truer we become.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 9, 2014 5:43:25 GMT 10
James, Am making use of how it is making me feel inside as you declare that I am trying to take your feelings away by having a different view than you have of yourself. Takes me back to my home of origin indeed.
"But you telling me such things all amounts to you not allowing me to be as I feel I want to be. And if I want to put myself down for eternity and compare myself to Marion and come up short that’s what I will do, and it’s none of anyone’s business even if everyone else feels sorry for me and can see how I’m making things worse for myself by indulging in my bad feelings using them as an escape and refusing to come out in the world by not allowing myself to feel good."
As long as I don't ruffle any feathers and see things as you do, you don't say anything about me trying to take away your feelings. When I do have another perspective and voice it, I'm told then I am trying to take away your feelings. As long as I don't push your buttons by me offering what I see, all is well, but when I do it is me trying to stop you from feeling how you feel (and butting into your own business). This is what I call crazy making and is perfect for me to really allow myself to sink into.
As a child my "take" on how I felt and what I saw was threatening to others. Instead of it opening up more vision for the both of us, it brought more oppression to me (them being in the position of authority/control over me as a child.) So to survive, I learned to keep my mouth shut not wanting to be blamed or punished if what I said triggered them into areas of shame/pain/guilt. I get you saying it FEELS like I am trying to control you when I say your putting yourself down evokes a sadness in me. For what ever reason, my feeling sad about that said to you, "She is saying I shouldn't be as I am. She is telling me I should be different. She is trying tell me I should feel better than I do." And I said nothing of the sort, only replied to your question in your post as to what it brings up for me when you put yourself down. I allowed your question to take me into my own core issues with my mother.
All this to say, I can't take on the responsibility you want to give to me now of trying to take away your feelings. It is for you to wrestle with why you need to put your feelings that are being triggered in you, upon someone outside yourself OR not. I have no power over you James, but I sure can be used to bring up and trigger all of your feelings of powerlessness from your childhood.
This thread for me is like many others have been...either one I just choose to disconnect from because it's too painful to allow to keep me feeling through all it brings up OR one that I on purpose use it as a sword to fall on. All of the words I shared here surround what this brings up for me thus far. I am one who is showing up for myself to do my own work here and as I do, I can't take responsibility for what it is going to trigger for you. I do look forward to all the rest of what is asking to be felt through for me as I continue to grant myself the permission to see as I see and feel. As always, this conversation is a gift of seeing all the reasons I became a mute and chose to cut all of my emotions off. Thank you for it.
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Post by James on Sept 9, 2014 17:03:15 GMT 10
Desire thank you for keeping on going with the threads that threaten you. I benefit from them so much too. So many different feelings they bring up, too many to write about, I can hardly keep up with speaking about all that comes with Marion. For someone who was all but feeling dead, it’s all new to me, helping me understand... so this is what people love about life, expressing all they are feeling in their interactions with each other, even all the bad stuff.
I think we should all be free to say what we like to each other and if something makes us feel bad, then look into ourselves to see why it has. However if we were living true to ourselves and our feelings, we’d probably not be saying things to each other that were hurtful as we’d not be full of hurt, anger, resentment, jealously, guilt and all the rest - we’d certainly not be wanting or needing to have power over another person.
The best part for me Desire, which may be just more of my problem, is I don’t feel bad about any of it, so I don’t feel like getting into it all disputing it with you saying things like: no, I didn’t mean that, you’ve misunderstood me there; or trying to sort out any of the bad stuff going on between us. I simply feel like leaving it, not doing anything further, not trying to work out who is right or wrong in this or that part as that’s what I’ve always believed I should do, yet it’s always been too difficult, it makes me feel crazy. It might be different if we were face to face and able to take the time over it all, but doing it by writing I find I just don’t want to do it.
And this feeling of ‘I just don’t want to do it’ makes me feel like I’m being told I have to do it, I have to go and say sorry Desire, sorry for upsetting you and making you feel bad. And on it goes into my shit all of which again I don’t want to write about anymore at the moment. I feel sick and tired of it all, I’ve had enough, I want them to leave me alone, I don’t care about the rights and wrongs of it all. I just want to be able to say whatever it is and find out for myself if what I say is right or wrong for myself, not always having (and I’m not saying you are, you have nothing to do with any of this Desire, it’s all mum and Gran) to do and obey and say what they tell me to do and say. I feel too demented, my head feels like it’s going to crack with the stress of it all, it’s all too much, they never leave me alone, I can’t even have my own thoughts as they are always telling me what I should think.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 11, 2014 0:52:59 GMT 10
Outside of using any post here as a power over/who is right or wrong struggle are the questions: When and with who have I encountered a conversation like this before? How did that interaction go? What did it make me feel about myself/the other? What is it still in me that desires this? What is this asking me to see that is yet unfinished within me? How is this trying to take me into my own core issues? SHOW ME, I WANT TO SEE. I WANT TO KNOW.
For me, this is always the underlying work I seek to do within myself.
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Post by James on Sept 11, 2014 13:44:21 GMT 10
For my part I feel like I’m four years old, and fighting for my survival. I reacted to what you said Desire because anything that is said against me - or which I interpret or imagine is being said against me, fills me with dread that I’m not going to be allowed to be, say, do and feel what I want. It’s a very deeply ingrained pattern in me and I am always accusing Marion of trying to tell me what to do, when she isn’t. And because overall I’m feeling better about myself, so I’m feeling better about standing up for myself and pushing back, even though I might be still wrong in misinterpreting that I am being threatened and told what to do by whomever. And for the time being, I don’t care if I’m right or wrong, I just want to push back, I want to exercise my anger bringing it back up all that I buried so long ago. And I don’t care about the other person how they will take it, I am just a four year-old in my misguided way trying to stand up for myself. Hopefully in time once I’ve liberated all this yuk with me, and there’s heaps of confusion within it, I might be able to mature to the point of not taking such things so personally and as an attack on me. But for the time being, I can’t pretend to be anything more than I am feeling. I do apologise Desire if you feel I’ve unfairly accused you of telling me what to do, but as I said, I can’t deal with that now, I can’t even go back and re-read the posts trying to work out what was going on. I feel stuck in my angry four year-old me, and I just want to fight and smash and tell them and everyone to go away and leave me alone. Because any time they were with me, they told me I wasn’t good being how I was and I had to change myself.
I don’t like having this tunnel feeling vision. I can’t read things properly. Marion asks me a question just wanting to know why I want to do something and I wrongly think she is interfering with me, telling me what to do and is going to get angry with me for not behaving and being as she said I should be. I have mum too heavily imprinted on me. Mostly it’s mum, dad and Gran in the house with me all the time instead of Marion. It’s an incredible feeling and way of being, as horrible as it is, but it’s like they are here constantly with me and telling me what to do all the time. I can’t leave them, I’ve never left them, even going to the other side of the world I still couldn’t leave them. It’s as if they are constantly in my aura, I can see their faces and feel their presences, almost to the point of believing dad and Gran are following me around all day long from spirit. They aren’t, but that’s how intense it feels. So I look at Marion but I’m still looking at mum, all of which has all but driven me crazy, but also shows me just how forceful they ‘took me over’, how I’ve disappeared replacing myself with them.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 12, 2014 2:19:34 GMT 10
"Because any time they were with me, they told me I wasn’t good being how I was and I had to change myself."
The child comes into the world learning this: The world around you has all of the power and you have none. So what do we do, what can we do? They have created the tunnel for our vision and so we must play a character/role that fits their need to live dominating our lives. So maybe the child chooses to choose the script of: "I'll never amount to anything." It fits like a perfect puzzle piece into our first pair of gods controlling and manipulative drama. From where do these scripts come from? We will choose one or more of the unconscious complexes that our parents live in personal denial of. When we do, the family dynamics live in a place that feels "balanced." It really really really sucks to play the personality role that fits into our parents need to stay in denial and at the same time we feel this weird loyalty and love for the role...I believe because we sense that it relieves our parents from feeling the heaviness of their own pain. And so we say to ourselves: "If this helps them out...me taking upon myself what they can not bear to see in themselves...I will do it." "By relieving them of this burden", the child reasons through their feeling hearts, "they will have the energy to be able to bear my presence in their lives. And if I play my part out to perfection, they will finally be able to love me." The very personality we choose to play to relieve our parents becomes the very mirror of themselves that they don't want to see...so they must reject our academy award performances. How fucking confusing is this for the child?
So we live protecting these personality roles that have absolutely nothing to do with the child we were/are. And as adults, we will find life dance partners who line up with these complexes we need to hold onto. They will be living as our mother or father/aunts/siblings who had power over us...they truly live with the same need to project the parts of themselves upon us that our family of origin did. This is what I am pointing to when I say that we choose our partners according to the painful dynamics we still need to play out. It doesn't matter if we now believe that we are now picking more consciously someone who says they want to work through their repressed childhood shit. Having that desire to have a healthy relationship living interdependently instead of co-dependently (needing each other's childhood roles to stay meshed with each other) has no ability to dissolve the complexes we took on as children (along with all of the emotions that accompany them). As long as I need my partner to play the part of my original parent/carer, I must stay stuck as the person that fits within their tunnel vision.
But what if we are ALL truly messed up...like all your incredible writing that you place upon your website says? Everyone who we will draw into our lives will fit perfectly into the card game we were dealt as children. Will our spouse/partners ever admit to us that they are not superior to us, further along, wiser than us? NO...they can't because we chose them to fulfill the purpose of recreating our relationship we as the child promised to stay loyal to. They must be above us, we must be beneath them until our time of waking up out of our own trance takes place. Who is in charge of that? Not our partners. It is us who must overthrow the old government of our original families when we choose to finally validate our true selves. Are we ready to validate our equality with all mankind, our right to feel what we feel and think what we think OR NOT feel anything if we don't want to, to give ourself permission to stay de-tuned/disconnected? That is the question.
On the surface, we may say that I have the right to stick to my guns...seeing and feeling the way I see and feel...while at the same time it being bullshit (we are still emotionally needing to give our power away to the other). We can piss and moan and rail against those who we believe are telling us we can't feel our authentic feelings thinking if I get all of this emotional angst out of me that my nightmare will end. It is an important part of it...a necessary part of it...that ultimately shows us even if we could have revolted as a child against those who had all of the power, that it does not dissolve the trance we are in. And this is the pain cycle that must keep on repeating itself...the brick in the face...until we are willing to see ourselves as equals, especially with those who we have needed to keep ourselves beneath.
The partners we choose in life do become our saviors, but not in the way we wanted them to be. The places of personal denial they still need to project upon us - to keep us small and them in charge - is what we need to "have our fill" of. We must live it out until it finally becomes nauseating to us. Most will go to their graves with illnesses that were trying to speak the truth to them about the dynamics of death that they took on long ago and are still desiring to avoid and disconnect from.
Each one of us is 100% responsible for the types of partnerships and friendships or lack of life partners or friendships that we keep. I must have others in my life who are here to help me keep on trying to finish my unfinished emotional business of my original family. I must unconsciously keep taking upon myself the disowned shadow parts that others don't want to admit to having. So others have the power of taking our authentic feelings away until they don't. Our own personal choices to experience what we must to reveal the "why's" of our need to give our power away to others isn't a place that anyone has the ability to interfere with. When we say we really want to know, sincerely with all of our hearts want to see the truth of how we keep setting all of this up (handpicking the perfect card players who will play the hand we were dealt as children), we will not be denied.
Our repressed emotions being expressed out of ourselves hold all of the clues. Those that never seem to be completely expressed out of us, but only live as circular patterns right at the surface in our lives (making us feel stuck) are the key emotions we say we are ready to validate, but must keep on shoving back down. We have a love affair with keeping others above or below us that supersedes our superficial desire to be free and live our authentic lives.
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Post by desire2bme on Sept 12, 2014 7:03:45 GMT 10
This is a letter I wrote to my husband not too long ago as we encountered similar feelings around similar issues. The title of the letter is:
Waving a white FUCKING flag!!!
Our dance of co-dependence (that I am not at all ashamed to admit I am not healed out of and want to work with you to heal from) is what I am now wanting to take responsibility for…my side of it.
For you…Safety goes out the window and feelings of abandonment arise when I become interested in my own emotions and feelings, prioritizing them above your own. When I do, and begin to find the roots of my need to give up my life for others (which leads to my becoming a rescuer of others to feel alive) our dance of codependence feels like it is going to end. I am disconnecting from you being my center and all that comes with that…wanting to fix you, change you and let go of all of the energy I was investing into focusing on how you are feeling.
For me…Safety goes out the window and feelings of abandonment arise when I choose to risk staying completely tuned into my own emotions and validate them no matter how much they are in disagreement to how you tell me I am not correct to feel the way I feel. It is risky because as a child, I was abandoned and felt unsafe when I wanted to be seen and heard. I was still looking for someone outside of me to tell me that what I was feeling was valid. And when we get into arguments and we are feeling and seeing things differently from the other, all this old fear of being abandoned kicks in and I become desperate to make you know how I am feeling so you won’t abandon me. I am still playing out the child I was with my parents.
As I live in my co-dependent desperation to be seen and heard by you and find you instead of being able to hear and see me, diminishing what I feel (in order to desperately hold onto your way of seeing and feeling)…I feel CRUSHED. It is an unbearable feeling that happens in me where I can’t stand to be in your presence one more second and I want to cut off any of your ability to keep on trying to make how you feel the only right way of feeling. Leaving the room and stopping the arguing - if I don’t do this I feel like I am going to go insane and suffocate. As a child I couldn’t leave my home, but had to STAY there as the ones with power over me decided what was the right way to feel. If how I felt was different, tough shit, I was just a kid and didn’t know anything.
We both experienced this pain as children…not having but desperately needing our feelings to be validated by someone on the outside of us. Our parents are most significant in helping us learn: we all feel differently and all deserve to be respected in honoring how we feel. No one is right and everybody else wrong…it is messed up to have to agree with another’s state of feelings and abort our own way. Our feelings in each of us are unique and are here to teach us about ourselves, so when we give them up to say mine are wrong and yours are right, we are pulling the plug on our own feeling hearts. It makes sense that we fight to keep the right to keep them and feel desperate to want the other to validate them. This is coming from the unhealed wound of our feelings never being validated by our parents and we are living it all over again with each other.
So what the fuck is the way out? I believe, first recognizing the depth of this wound. I can only come to grips with my own being very very deep. And as I do, I see that to keep on trying to get you to validate my emotions and how I see and feel things is trying to finish my unfinished business with my parents. If I stay stuck in this hypnotic trance I create hell for me and hell for you. Yeah, so what the fuck is the way out? For me, what I am SLOWLY learning is to (outside of being with anyone or trying to communicate with anyone) validate my own emotions. How am I feeling, really feeling?, I ask myself. And I get good at listening and hearing how it’s going on in there for me, being interested and curious without telling myself it’s stupid or wrong or should be any different than what it is. The more I do this on my own, because I simply care to want to know me, the more I then want to change our co-dependent dance to me never wanting to share what I am learning about me with you, to desiring to connect a let you see who I am discovering when I listen inside to myself. And this is a RISK for me to do because I FEAR that when I share how I think and feel that you will become my parents and try to take away from me what I am discovering. So when that happens, no matter how much self-validation I have gotten good at doing, I still feel my wound of feeling CRUSHED.
It makes sense to me that you feel I am not changing or growing at all because my reaction is still the same in our arguments. I am not yet healed enough from my own wound of not being seen and heard by another, but continue to do the work of validating my own feelings while I am alone knowing this is what will bring the healing. It is not a quick process to heal this, it takes time. My desire to not share anything of my feeling heart with you anymore (instead to talk of the weather and garden) was the only immediate solution I could come up with to keep us from going into our trance with one another. It is not for the reason that you thought, me just wanting to get further and further from our relationship together. It is because I desire to stop setting myself up while I am myself yet so weak in honoring and staying with my own feelings…not wanting to put you either in the position for me to force you to validate my feelings while you then must get angry (getting in touch with the childhood shit that says “If I agree with her feelings, I have to deny my own.”…which is TOTALLY FUCKED UP!).
So I wave the flag of truce without any need to be planning an escape from our codependent marriage in process of being healed. If we both can begin to really get what we are really dealing with…this wound that I have described, we can stay to the task of learning self-validation as we also at the same time will need to be willing to feel the pain that we have buried from not being validated from the very significant ones we were born to.
Writing this has helped me clarify what my own motivations have been much better than when I started. I hope there’s is some thread in it that also helps begin to clarify things for you.
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Post by James on Oct 12, 2014 10:34:03 GMT 10
Gaining false power from our healing.
I’ve had another important insight. If you’re still coming to the forum as a guest Desire, I’m sorry but it’s largely about you, and I have to use you as an example to illustrate what I’ve come to understand. And I also understand it about myself, it’s how I am and have been throughout my healing.
I have wondered why two women have come to my forum, both obviously so different in their approach to their healing. And other than Wes, why no one else has come to interfere with all that I’ve needed to go through with both women - Samantha and Desire. And as usual, it’s all been perfect - how can it not be.
Over the years I’ve wondered about my work so far as people taking it and using it to further their evilness. I have often debated within myself and talked with Marion about whether or not I should actually put anything out there so as to avoid people using it to make themselves become more untrue. However as I am coming to understand they are not my responsibility, and slowly through my healing I’ve felt better about doing what I want to do and dealing with any consequences that arise from my actions when they do, rather than trying to second guess them in the hope of not allowing anything bad to happen, so I keep going ahead with it.
So there has been a progression I’ve seen over the years concerning people taking the truth as it’s been revealed and using it to further their own corruption. First, although it took me a long time to understand, the so-called ‘Divine Love’ people are doing this. They are taking the truth from Jesus about the Divine Love and using it to further their own agenda, to make themselves feel better by gaining more power in their own negative state - albeit false power. Years ago people took all Mary and Jesus said and used such words and all they represent to also further their own false power, we’re all familiar with the Bible and Christians, but the Divine Love people where the first to actually take Jesus’ newly revealed truths about the Divine Love into their evilness. And I was one of them.
Then came AJ and all he and ‘Mary’ are doing in North Australia especially to do with the healing side of things, yet once again just taking what Jesus revealed mostly through the Padgett Messages and using it to falsely empower themselves, AJ even claiming he is Jesus reincarnated and Mary Luck is Mary Magdalene reincarnated.
Then comes my work with Mary and Jesus, and more specifically to do with the healing. And throughout my healing, continually I’ve tried to do in effect what AJ is doing, I’ve tried to take the healing and making it into something that it’s not, I’ve tried to add it to my evilness. However with Marion constantly pulling me up on how I am trying to control and gain power through the spiritual revelation we’re both living, I’ve been thankfully able to avoid getting too sidetracked and caught up in my own self-glory about it all.
And so I have wondered: Will other people follow the path I have, will they try and use the truths of Divine Love including all Mary and Jesus have revealed through me for their own gain, will they try and falsely empower themselves through their healing by using their healing, the very thing they are doing to try and stop having such wrong misguided power? And I would have to conclude they will, as it’s only natural, because until we’re fully healed, our patterns are still in place within those of us who are inclined to do so.
And so this brings me to what I’ve been through with Samantha and Desire. So again I apologise Desire, and I would completely understand if you disagreed with what I am saying, but I feel you, like me, have been unwittingly trying to use all you are gaining through your healing for false power, it all being borne out on the intellectual side of needing to maintain such control over the process.
Samantha and Marion, still with their own power problems, are not like Desire and myself, they aren’t using the intellectual side that comes to light through their feeling healing to gain any power, being able to more truly stay in their feelings allowing themselves to be led by them, that which I long to be able to do, but which I understand probably won’t happen until I’ve completely healed. So they are not using their increasing ability to express themselves and be true to their feelings for power; they are not using their healing for power; they are not using the power of their feelings and all the truth, information and understanding that comes up in them for power. They are truly facing their false power, seeing it for what it is, giving it up understanding that any true power they will have will come simply as a natural result of their being true. That we don’t have to do anything to gain natural power for it’s just there - naturally part of ourselves.
And so (and this part I’m not attributing to you Desire) I could imagine that other people who are like myself and so disconnected from their feelings, might go off on sidetracks as they work on liberating portions of themselves if they don’t have someone like Marion or their own ability to help keep themselves stay on the straight and narrow.
And I’m not saying such people and their sidetracks will necessarily be bad; they will, just as are the Divine Love people and AJ, just as we all do, simply be doing what they feel is best to do. Yet still I want to write about it as part of the healing process we’ll be going through, so we can be on the look out for possibly using our healing to further our wrongness by saying periodically to ourselves: Am I using my healing and the truth coming up in me to actually hinder my healing progression by using it as just another way to empower parts of my remaining wrong mind? Am I inadvertently using the truth and understanding that’s coming to light through my feelings for greater power and control over myself - or over others, nature and God? Am I truly submitting to my feelings allowing them to do what they will with me, instead of trying to control them with my increasing truth and intellectual understanding about that truth?
I had hoped naively, this even part of the very mind control I am talking about regarding myself, that people who embraced their healing would be able to stay true to it, and see it right through to the end without straying off the path, without getting stuck, without unbeknownst to them, being seduced by feeling better about themselves and the truth they are liberating before they are completely healed, and because of that, adding yet more negative beliefs and patterns to themselves. But now I feel it would be a miracle if that were not to happen, and that more realistically during the next age that Mary and Jesus talk about, there will be all sorts of ways out working the truths to do with the healing, so all sorts of different ‘ways’ to do ones healing, all of which will be abstractions to the truth adding yet more confusion and feeling denial.
So the most difficult part we all face is: How do I know if I’m going off the track? Which of course we can’t know, so all we can do is keep longing for the truth as we try and express all our feelings and keep asking our Mother and Father to keep us on track, to keep us being true to our healing. And at the same time accept that we might not be living it as truly as we believe we are, that we might be going way off track, and that is okay, even possibly inevitable, but eventually we’ll come back working through such problems.
Now personally, I don’t want to hurt anyone, I hate all this with you Desire because I just want it all to be nice, it’s hard enough as it is struggling on doing our healing, but I have to try and write out how I understand it. And it’s not that I can help you or anyone to even see what I mean, let alone if I think someone is not perhaps going along their right track what they should do to get back on track, because I have no idea what another persons right track would be. But so far as I am concerned, it is all contained in this, Desire said: “As long as I don't ruffle any feathers and see things as you [James] do, you don't say anything about me trying to take away your feelings. When I do have another perspective and voice it, I'm told then I am trying to take away your feelings. As long as I don't push your buttons by me offering what I see, all is well, but when I do it is me trying to stop you from feeling how you feel (and butting into your own business). This is what I call crazy making and is perfect for me to really allow myself to sink into.” For within that it shows there are hidden agendas, so hidden power needs at play. Which all come down to trying to have power over me, trying to have power over another person, which I also understand Desire you are not wanting to do. And hey, I’m the first one to feel hurt by this, by thinking I’m not having power over another, such as over Marion, yet I am, as we’ve worked out time and time again. I am one big power play, that was what my family was all about, it’s what my survival is based on, and it’s why I reacted to you as I did, and why you’ve taken it as you have. And why I would imagine, you’re no longer wanting to post on the forum, all of which as I said, I understand. However should you want to come back and keep going, I’d like that too, and if things come to a head again, well so be it, and possibly that’s what is meant to happen. And if you feel all I’ve said is rubbish and you were not wanting to have power over me, that’s fine too with me. And if you want to talk about it more, that too is okay with me.
And finally, all I say might be wrong, that too I have to consider, it possibly being yet another of my sidetracks, and I will accept that if it’s shown to me. So all I am attributing to you Desire might still only be my own projection and fucked-up state. However it has helped me see things in this new light, and for that I am very grateful to you. And over the past couple of weeks it’s helped me see a lot more truth about myself.
Later.
In further talking with Marion about it, I’ve realised that I believed my healing would empower me and that I was looking to my feelings for that. That by doing my healing I would be the superior one after all, particularly as mum and dad aren’t doing theirs, so I’d be better than them, and so better than everyone. So with all my repressed anger coming up I felt stronger within myself to stand up to mum and dad and fight them, as if I could go back and say no and even possibly win at times in the battles against them. So ultimately I would have the power over my parents that they had over me. And I’ve felt as my healing has progressed that with my anger I now have some feelings of power, I can assert myself, I don’t have to be the wimp I used to be, I can now be a real man!
Being in my family was an ongoing fight, them against us kids, even though I was not allowed like so many people can do, to demonstratively have power over others and so have a sense of and gain a taste for winning. And although I didn’t fight outwardly, inwardly I did and I still am, with my winning fantasies being strengthened by their praise of me and our feelings in our family of being superior to others.
Marion has never fought, she wasn’t allowed to have any power like I was and most people do in their families. And she doesn’t see life as a fight - them against me. And neither does she want such power, it doesn’t even occur to her to have it or want it or to try and get it. All she wants to do is be able to express all she feels, but not try and make anyone do anything with the power those feelings liberate. In my power-seeking state I think everyone should do their healing, in her not-wanting power state, she doesn’t think people should or should not do their healing. And if the person doesn’t respect her feelings, then too bad for her and she will walk away; or as Jesus showed, just allow the one seeking such false power to have their way, submit, stay true within ones own feelings, but don’t fight.
So I’ve led myself to believe that the better I feel about myself resulting from my healing, the more power I’ve been gaining. But this I can now see is just more false power. And with the pain in my back and body going on for so long, and my not being able to do anything about it, and no longer wanting to, so I’m no longer even trying to have power over my body by forcing it to be how I think it should be. So I’m allowing the pain to be there and living within its limitations, without going to the doctor or physiotherapist or doing exercises or getting massages to try and loosen up like I used to, nothing but just feeling how bad having such persistent pain makes me feel.
So now I understand that for the majority of people who want to do their healing, if they stay true they will finally be led into giving up any false power their healing might offer them along the way. And I imagine as I said above, a lot of people as they progress in their healing will possibly get caught up in the false power it generates as they feel better about themselves, going off on tangents until they realise how being their new more healed self is not working, and so coming back to longing for the truth again.
So I now understand that we are to express our feelings but NOT use them to have power over ourselves, another person, nature or God. We are just to stay with and in them - true to them, doing nothing more than feeling them, and expressing all they make us feel, as we long for their truth. And I say this is how we are meant to be with our feelings, however also understanding that whilst we’re in our messed up states, we can’t be fully this way, but this is what I believe and feel we can at least strive, long and wish for.
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