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Post by desire2bme on May 31, 2014 1:10:24 GMT 10
Recently, my husband and I went through a situation where he didn't realize it, but he was shutting me down...making it very obvious that he had absolutely no sliver of room for me to express anything that I was honestly feeling. When this happens (and it is without words, I wish I could capture it in a drawing) I feel like I have been placed into a seal proof container away from him. The image of when mental patients are put in a room by themselves when they are "misbehaving" comes to mind as I write this. Another image that comes is when you go to a bank and do the drive up service - putting your $business in one of those plastic tumblers and pushing the button sending it out away into the bank for them to tend to. I feel like my husband has this way of simply shutting everything I am down and out of his reality and sending me away out into space like one of those containers. In my husband's family, there was no place to share anything personal...and to ask anyone a personal question was completely out of bounds...unacceptable behavior. So when I step over this family rule line of his, he feels invaded and flips his "I'm not here, so don't even try to say anything" switch.
As I have sat with this very sad, not seen, not heard place that he helps me get in touch with, I come up with this white hot rage...the kind that takes the biggest kitchen knife and wants to stab people straight in the heart. There is such pain when the person you want so much to just connect with can only see the gesture as someone trying to manipulate or control them. This is what I am seeing is what my relationship with my father was. The little that I do know about my dad, one thing I do know is how much he resisted his mother. He was an only child and must have been monitored heavily by his mother in manipulative and controlling ways. I watched my mother pay a very heavy price for my dad's history with his own mother that he never resolved. My mom had very little room to say anything in the marriage, minuscule power and this made her a very angry woman...who of course had her own family rules of not being able to have her honest anger (unable to allow herself permission to just feel it), so it came out as us kids. As a child, I paid the price of my grandmother's control and manipulation of my father. I daily watched my parent's relationship of my mother who took over my grandmother's ways of trying to manipulate my father away from drinking along with trying to control him. No doubt she also wanted to take the biggest kitchen knife and stab her own husband feeling so much pain, unable to have simple communication that wouldn't be perceived as being trying to control or manipulate.
When I choose on purpose to "not cross the line" with my own husband...to say what I feel and allow myself to walk away and feel how awful it is to be "punished" for intruding upon his privacy for just wanting to share my life with him...it takes me into this space where we women have been relegated to. We are sent here because we can not be trusted not to control or manipulate. So I sit here in this private space of my own and just allow myself to feel what it's like to be punished and not trusted for just wanting to be seen and heard. This is HEAVY SHIT! I am glad to be here...I know it sounds crazy, but the mind will never get this way of healing. Generation after generation has tried to use more and more control and manipulation as the ammunition to try to gain a foothold into having some kind of marriage instead of just seeing through and understanding why the men keep them at a distance (not even knowing why they are doing it). And the other part of this after seeing through it, is using these situations now to allow myself to feel into my own childhood pain...being kept at arm's length (further than arm's length) from my dad because I am a girl who can not be trusted to not invade or cross into a man's private territory. I do not expect this iron clad generational dance of marriage to want to go easily and I see what my own work to do is...staying with each and every opportunity that takes me to that kitchen knife and NOT using it on my husband, but feeling into the child who learned to not trust herself to have a say, who believed there was something wrong with her to even want to speak up about herself, that ultimately she used the knife to cut out her own voice box (yes, another version of me cutting off my hands and feet). This is virgin territory to live differently than all the generations of women before me in my bloodline. I feel so good to be able to have the support and Love of Ma-Pa God as I allow these pockets of pain to show up for me to finally accept and feel through.
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Post by James on May 31, 2014 21:58:55 GMT 10
“There is such pain when the person you want so much to just connect with can only see the gesture as someone trying to manipulate or control them.” I am like your husband, I relate to what you are saying, all because of what Marion has shown me about myself through her feelings and helping me to understand mine. I was - and still are to some degree - full fearful of the woman, and the belief she is all-controlling. I’ve wrongly accused Marion time and time again of being manipulative and so controlling (when all along I’ve been the manipulative controller just projecting all I refuse to admit about myself onto her), all because I was so heavily controlled by the women in my early life. And then to have all the male shit put on top of that, that I am superior than women and they don’t make me scared and I am the controller. When really I’m still the pathetic little scared boy both my parents have fucked up.
“When I choose on purpose to "not cross the line" with my own husband...to say what I feel and allow myself to walk away and feel how awful it is to be "punished" for intruding upon his privacy for just wanting to share my life with him...it takes me into this space where we women have been relegated to.” Oh I’ve felt so bad dumping on Marion. It’s one of the things I hate the most about myself that I was made to become. And all unconsciously doing it, and all self-righteously believing I am not the one at fault - she is. And when she’s helped me to see how bad I have made her feel, oh I feel so bad, so ashamed and guilty, and so sad that I can’t stop myself and didn’t even know I was doing it to her. I believed I was even being loving! And to listen to her pain as she’s told me about all the terrible times men have treated her so badly, relegating her to her lowly nothing position in life and insisting she stays there doing what they say, stopping her from expressing her feelings, just hitting her simply because she dared to say how she felt. All as her mother and father treated her. I can sympathise with you Desire. I of course can’t begin to know the pain Marion and yourself feel, but I know it’s all very bad, I’ve at least seen that in Marion, and I’m still seeing it when I reject her and treat her like she’s a nothing of-no-account nobody.
“I do not expect this iron clad generational dance of marriage to want to go easily and I see what my own work to do is...staying with each and every opportunity that takes me to that kitchen knife and NOT using it on my husband, but feeling into the child who learned to not trust herself to have a say, who believed there was something wrong with her to even want to speak up about herself, that ultimately she used the knife to cut out her own voice box (yes, another version of me cutting off my hands and feet). This is virgin territory to live differently than all the generations of women before me in my bloodline.” It sure takes a lot of courage. And it’s sure going to take a lot by women such as yourself to stand up to it and face the truth of their pain - to accept all the agony they are feeling. To allow themselves to feel it as you are allowing yourself. It’s not as if it’s hard enough for you to embrace all your bad feelings, but to then be shut out and not allowed to express all you feel, so having to go in and do it all yourself, that’s like having the burden doubled. And by the time you’re through, there won’t be anything left of you to hack off.
And by the way Desire, did you want the font of your post to be that small for a particular reason, because if you did, tell me and I won't interfere in future. Otherwise I will make it bigger so I can see it more easily - you know, getting older and my eyes not working as well as they used to.
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Post by desire2bme on Jun 1, 2014 0:26:31 GMT 10
No problem James with changing font size...haven't figured out yet what size you're all using Your words of identification with what my husband goes through is very encouraging. Thank you so much for sharing all you have from your own perspective. As I live the re-enactments of childhood past through my husband's triggers, there is the Wise Soul part within me that is my support while the work load is being doubled. That's the thing about this work...the more I choose to "face the music" of all the old sad songs from childhood I need my invisible Supports and have learned to ask and keep on asking for help. (It has taken me many years to believe/know that when I ask, I will receive).
There is a certain new dance within the old generational marriage dances that my husband and I do. And it is me walking away after I am triggered into my childhood pain and getting straight in and staying with what feels like an incinerator burning burning up with the rage. The more I see through my husband's actions and allow him instead to represent my original pain propagators, I find these events are my prayers and longings for truth being answered. So while it seems from the outside that life and limb just keeps on getting cut off, every time I use these occasions to move into and stay with the child's emotions who was abandoned back then, I am re-connecting with all that was cut off...regaining a feeling of coming into my own personality again.
In order to see this process through, for me, it has been key to no longer be surprised or ashamed of any depth charge that comes up...when I said I wanted to find the biggest kitchen knife and put it through my husband's heart, that is exactly what it felt like! It makes complete sense, too, when I keep on being reminded that we are the ones choosing that these evil dances handed down full strength (without the ones before us seeing through and doing their own emotional work) are going to stop with us. It is piles and piles and piles and loads and loads and loads of bitterness, resentments, angers, hatreds that have never been tended to. Out we innocently come into this world and we are thrown this "hot potato" of generational shit (do you have that expression in Australia?). As we find it in our hands we live in guilt and shame for feeling murderous and rage full, wanting our way, wanting to climb over others to get what we want, doing what ever it takes to keep from feeling the pain from not being loved.
I have lived my first 50 years wondering what the hell I am here for. Once I got a whiff of doing this kind of personal generational pain work, I knew...this is it. No wonder nothing else ever felt fulfilling or satisfying. When you talked about feeling like this little child, so afraid of being manipulated and controlled, I have seen this actual change happen with my husband. I see the little boy's face appear upon his and watch his body become more sunken in, head down, not wanting his eyes to meet my own as I express my own truth. I watch him re-living his own unbearable pain right in front of my eyes. The more I am able to see this even as I am feeling not heard and not seen, my expectation of thinking we are to work through anything within our current states together when we reach this point is non-existent. The first time through my marriage I struggled right here and tried to make him understand and loaded him down with another experience of being controlled and manipulated by a woman. Now, I just go to the point where I feel my own childhood emotions triggered and on a good day, walk away...not with anger or disgust at him anymore because I know all I am feeling is shit in me that was there before I ever laid eyes on him. He truly is the gift opening my Pandora's box for me so I can go and sit with my own feeling work.
It is good to have to have a place to write as I still do need time to piss and moan about having to work through this even though at the same time there is an inner joy at being able to finally see through things to know what my job to do is in all of this. This, too, I am not ashamed of anymore...finding myself hating and loving this at the same time. Thanks again so much for giving your sight and time to respond. It reinforces what I sensed was happening inside of my husband and strengthens my resolve to keep standing up and collapsing through these opportunities given me to heal.
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Post by wesley on Jun 1, 2014 5:13:04 GMT 10
I am also the same and came from the same type of family that your husband had. Still today my family has that same tradition. There are 5 of us all boys and none of us had any inklings about personal feelings. Especially from woman's perspective. And the biggest impression that stayed with me was my mom's rejection. As a child I started to have those questions about girls. I actually went to my mom to understand more about that. We'll she look at me in a negative way and just simply walked away. I thought I should have never said anything to her because she made my feel evil. To make things worst the following weekend she had a get together and invited over relatives. My mom called me into the kitchen and there were her and my aunts. First thing I heard was "you don't need to know about women boy" and laughter broke out. I was crushed beyond belief at that moment. Other kids can go to their parents about the birds and the bees but in our family not the case. So about 30 years plus believe don't never trust my mom again with any personal matters. So my iron home was built against the feelings of women. It is so terribly hard to change that and really only my awareness of it all will gradually and slowly change through my healing process. Without healing I still will take that power onto myself and reject the Mother. When I used to hear those dreaded words from my spouse "we have to talk" I would become like your husband as any other man without feelings would. My whole day would be done. All I wanted to do is make my mom go away. She said don't worry about women so I won't but they won't let me. Oh the women in my life poured it on and I couldn't stop the impact of it. They were out to control me and I will be wipped. So the work is very very hard for the male. Accepting their point of view and actually(woman) listening to them. So the change is on and also the long journey of being one with the women. So I see through you, Marion, Samantha, and my wife's eyes. And how the feelings are the True meaning of our lives. I'm just beginning this process and have miles to go.
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Post by desire2bme on Jun 1, 2014 6:44:03 GMT 10
Wesley, you really helped me feel some more from the male side of things...esp. "We need to talk" and how hearing that moves you back into the trance of mother's power/control over you as a child making you feel the way she did. Doing this kind of work as I am moved into it is somewhat like hacking my way through a deep dark jungle. None of us could possibly just give the other of us going through this "an answer" because the work of facing our own fears and feeling our old pain isn't possible for any of us to do for the other. The ultimate answer is to be willing to stay in what is unfolding and when feeling the nudge even to walk into what seems like "a trap" thinking "here we go again" to choose to allow ourselves to stay in our feelings instead of cutting them off and numbing them out. My ability to use the Wise Support waiting for me... to know It is there as I stay within my feelings that arise is such a huge part of what I am learning through this. You also help me to see how difficult it is from what you encountered through opening your heart to ask your questions to women/mother in the past...CRUSHED. I know my husband went through the same with both his parents. They don't ask him anything personal and he does not offer them anything personal. His belief about all women is that they will gossip about anything they are told in confidence...he saw it happen with his mother and older sister and all of those wonderful church ladies that need to know the details of everyone in order to "pray" for them. How easy it must be for men to do what we women do with them saying, "All men are _______(fill in the blank...looking for a quick fuck, pigs, liars etc.) "All women are ________(bitches who give orders, never happy with anything I do, NEVER to be trusted etc.) Oh Mother God...You see the pickles we are in. Keep on teasing me slowly out of my protective and defensive postures. I want to feel through this war between the sexes and to face the truth of all of the pain I have felt and created for others.
Wesley, I have a question about something. You wrote: "So the work is very very hard for the male. Accepting their point of view and actually(woman) listening to them." Do you mean that with women in general...to sit and listen to them it brings up the painful feelings or is that more so to do within the dynamics with your spouse? Again, your expressing how the women treated you when you needed your questions answered as a young boy really touched something in me. Thank you so much for giving of yourself in this conversation.
Read more: dlscr.freeforums.net/thread/67/feeling-hatred-mistrust-dad-women#ixzz33LmLyRIk
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Post by James on Jun 1, 2014 19:46:56 GMT 10
Every day, and sometimes many times a day to the point that I should just do myself in and be done with it for being such an unloving and disrespectful person, and this has been going on for years now through Marion’s and my everyday interactions, something I do or say makes her feel bad, and when we work it through, it’s all because I’m trying to have power over her. And gradually we’ve both come to see - and for me to feel, that it’s all because I’m so scared of mum. I am always projecting mum onto Marion. In fact I don’t even really see Marion, as weird as it sounds. She doesn’t exist, only mum, which of course then gives rise to her feeling so shut out, rejected and uncared about by me. So when we’re sitting opposite each other for example, and I’m speaking, if she looks away and out the window for a second, or moves forward like she’s about to get up, I pull back, pull in, lower my voice, feeling she’s no longer wanting me, rejecting me and making me feel very unloved and bad. And yet I have buried this rejection so deeply, all because I can’t bear to face complete rejection of her (mum) because were that to happen to me - and as she threatened, without her, I’ll be out in the streets with no one and nothing. But it’s been, as much as it’s agony trying to bring to light all my terribly painful feelings about feeling so rejected by her, incredible to see just how I am wired into every slight body language movement from her, so I’m always keeping an eye on her, even unconsciously; I’m always ready for the the slight and rebuff, all so I can pull back in and go into protection mode. And it’s so dam hard to face my fear of mum, to first of all feel I’m so scared, then speak up about it to Marion, being so heavily conditioned to block it all out. When you’ve had to force yourself to ‘love’ the monster you’re the most scared of in the whole world - your own mother, then that’s a huge amount of psychological gymnastics you’ve performed on yourself. (And although my fear is heavily focused on mum, it’s also equal the amount, so I’ve come to see and feel, that I fear dad, but mostly it’s mum because I was with her the most right from the very beginning.)
And along with all of this, as you might expect, I am seething with rage - like you say Desire, white hot, blistering, and wanting to carve mum up into little bits, to shred her to nothing, to pay her back for making me feel so bad, to punish her for being so unloving and unkind and insensitive.
Then I have dad and my grandfather who never said boo to their women, too afraid of their terrifying mothers, yet who married women who they needed to be told what to do by. And they are laden with such resentment, and so instilled in me unconscious feelings of even greater hatred for mum and Gran than I might have had were I left alone in it with them. And this broadens to a hatred of all women. And yet as my women manipulated me also heavily against men, especially my pathetic father who was mildly pissed (drunk) all the time and hardly at home preferring to keep well away from mum’s wrath, so I’ve had to be on the women’s side supporting them against men. So I’ve ended up putting myself with women who will accept me, yet who I look to control me, even though I believe I’m the controller and dominating them. It’s all been such a confusion for Marion and I to have to work through.
And currently I’m feeling about three or four and having panic attacks about which one I am meant to follow - be like. Should I be like my mum or my dad, or Gran. And I can’t be like them all; and they tell me not be like the others, and I’m feeling so demented, my head is splitting with the worry of it; I’m shitting myself with fear, because what if I’m like dad and mum hates that and yells at me. But what if I’m like mum and Gran tells me off for being like my mother. And what if I’m like... and in no way can be like myself. I have no idea who me is. I’m a horribly mixed up compilation of them.
And concerning posting on the forum, I mostly write in Garamond - I like it’s rounded style, and in .rtf format. That then copies and pastes straight into the forums default font and size, which I can then alter as I like. I don’t use .doc (but I don’t see why it should be any different). I only use a very simple word processing package Bean on my iMac. I rarely type straight onto the forum as my Internet connection is often dropping out and ceasing up.
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Post by wesley on Jun 2, 2014 4:03:22 GMT 10
I wouldn't say all women but the ones who were close to me. Relatives and my spouse and the women that I was involved with during my life.
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Post by wesley on Jun 2, 2014 7:11:50 GMT 10
From my personal experience in my life I know that the women far passes the man as we draw on our physical power to intiminate. Knowing now that my guardian angel is a beautiful woman spirit. She stayed with me all my life's problems. Knowing how I was rejected from mom and instilling in me to never use physical power to dominate in my relationships. My learning of math was from a woman, my first job was from a woman and now I'm surrounded by women. So men fear that and try to dominate the whole world by brute strength. But we are really weak spiritually. The woman place are above the gurus,preachers, and ministers. Never did a man make me feel good about myself during my upbringing except for James who also understands very well. Why does this world keep rejecting the teachings of the woman? I long to see the new age of the man and woman both changing the world. Together as one. But I guess the man has to get his head out if his own ass. So reading about the 3 women spirits on this forum opens up a whole new genre of spiritual attainments. Oh the holy man we are supposed to follow. There teachings and their ways lead to death. Taking the form of God on the throne. And all we can do is build our physical strength and then hide. How ashamed I felt that I believed in only the Father. How great to meet our Mother thanks to James's forum. How much joy to read and feel the writings of you women and to understand the impact of it all. So I am breaking the chains that my mom put on me not letting me know anything about women. So I am at the beginning slowly coming along. But first man has to realize this as I had too to give the woman her place in this world.
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Post by desire2bme on Jun 2, 2014 10:05:48 GMT 10
James: You share the dynamics of how we unconsciously paste the masks of our mothers/fathers faces on our spouses just as I have also experienced it. It's true, after being together with my husband now for 20 years, I have only just realized that I have no clue who he is...just as when I do not share my true self, feelings with Mother-Father God, I can't know who I am. My husband's stature is as my dad's was 6'3" and my dad used his height and weight in a way that threatened and frightened me as a child...and so I do end up back in those feelings when I am in the trance. And there is SO much of the waiting to see what they (spouse in the form of our parent) are going to say when I do this or say that. It is such a burden to place on them, but like you say...time and time again , we find ourselves living in this trance and thankfully sometimes while in the midst of it waking up out of it and choosing to feel into what's churning in us.
Yesterday when I spent the day checking in on the fawn to see if it had moved and was reading about what one can do for an abandoned fawn, I had no idea that my husband was "monitoring" me. He watched me go through my feeling cycles through out the day and chose to take on the idea that he should help to carry what he believed I was feeling - worry and anxiety. I didn't realize this until the day was done, I saw that the mother came back for the fawn and I went to tell my husband the good news. He replied, "See, you went through all of that anxiety and worry for nothing." He really believed from watching me that he knew what I was going through...never asked me to share how I felt, or talked to me about what was specifically going on...so he really didn't know. He was mind/body reading. It's what I used to do with my parents as well and believed all that my own mind told me was the truth of what I saw going on and I carried what no one asked me to carry, but you just learn to think the worst to be prepared for the worst. In no-talk families, our options are not open to asking what's really going on so we learn to mind and body read...sometimes very very accurately, other times way off!
There came a shift this weekend in another area for us. My father was not anyone to ask for help or any favors from...he was either drunk or tired from farming. My mom was someone I also learned to not ask anything from because I felt sorry for all of the crap she carried everyday and did not want to "burden" her further. So I have all of this anger still tied up over all that I never asked for and resented not being able to ask that I transfer upon my husband. His own anger and resentment toward his mother (who ends up being me now) either negates or just puts off any requests I do make with him. So he's feeling weighted down with a simple request because it brings up all his mother shit and I feel my rage at finally asking for little things and being ignored. Such a fun dynamic!! So this week I was going over in my mind how many times I had asked him already to check over my bicycle that has been in storage for a couple of years so I can use it and know there's nothing going to bust or break when I take it out for a ride. He used to have his own bike shop and did repairs, etc. so this request isn't something difficult or in an area of knowledge he is unfamiliar with. I took the time to really feel into my bitterness and resentment, allowing the fire of it to burn as I took the heat off my husband and placed it back upon the shoulders of who it really belonged...my mom and dad. After feeling through it, my mind ended up feeling so clear knowing exactly how to handle this need I had now with my bicycle. I was going to give my husband the room to not have to be the one to answer this request and just take it down to the local bicycle shop and have them look it over to see if it needs anything. That very day that I decided this, my husband came home from work and parked his car outside the garage so that he would have room to work on my bicycle. As I finish this post up, my bicycle sits waiting for me to take my first spin! I love to watch these shifts happen with out having to hammer it all out with each other...literally want to take a hammer and hammer it out! When all of this transference of shit is going on no one is wanting to feel into their own crap. When one of us will choose to work through the emotion it gives more room to the other to feel less controlled and manipulated...and shifts begin to happen.
Blaming my husband only keeps my wheels spinning in my own shit and keeps giving him good reason to spend time on his computer playing solitaire where he can actually "win" at something in life and not be told what to do or how to do it. Working through the real origins of my emotions does not mean we will stop finding ourselves in these trances with each other, but it does take a chunk out of the feeling of control and manipulation that comes out of me toward him...little bit by little bit. And little bit by little bit as well the bud of trust between us begins to open up.
Wes, I too am learning a lot from you and James as you simply just lay out the truth of the hows and whys of the reactions you have toward women. Thanks so much to both of you.
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Post by James on Jun 2, 2014 12:47:18 GMT 10
Yep, “He replied, "See, you went through all of that anxiety and worry for nothing." He really believed from watching me that he knew what I was going through...never asked me to share how I felt, or talked to me about what was specifically going on...so he really didn't know. “, that’s how I am too. As I wasn’t allowed to express my feelings when young and so find out life through them for myself, just being told what it is and even what I am feeling, so I had no choice, so I’ve discovered through my healing, other than to make it up. So I completely understand your husbands actions. I am always assuming I know what’s going on and what it’s all about. Marion doesn’t do it at all, and her way is such a different way to mine. I just go through countless amounts of internal summarising it all for myself and making endless deductions all on my own imaginings. And when we work things through, god I am way off track, and it’s amazing to realise that Marion wasn’t as I thought she was, she wasn’t doing what she did for the reasons I’d made up in my head. And before I started my healing, I’d have said to you exactly the same thing your husband said. But now I understand that really I’m so pissed off with mum with worrying and being so anxious about everything, as it makes me feel so scared. And because I was never allowed to express how scared I was, so I’ve had to bury all that, and then make up all of sorts of things to placate my fear. So it’s a way of gaining power, because I feel so powerless feeling so scared, so I can come up over mum and ‘be the man’, be the strong one who doesn’t have all those stupid ‘women’s’ foolish worries, as Gran would complain about mum. So I am more superior than mum because I’m not worried and anxious, I knew, for example, the mother deer would return; I was great one, you are the weak one, all reinforcing how men (dad who never expressed his feelings) are stronger and better than women. And yet really I’m so envious of you the woman for being able to say and allow yourself to demonstrate outwardly that you are worried and anxious (mum had power in doing that), because that’s actually how I feel too, and really I’d love to be able to get all the bad feelings out, but I can’t. So I’m angry again that you the woman can, and I the man can’t, so I want to beat you up, take out all my frustration on you, so just in those few words I can shit all over you, falsely bolstering my ego and pretending that I’m not the bad one, you’re the bad one - the woman. You’re (mum) the weak and pathetic one, you’re the one everyone hates, you’re the one Gran and dad and my grandfather say is bad because you are ‘making all the fuss’, and god forbid, we don’t want fuss. And then it would go even further, that for me in your husbands position I’d also be secretly shitting myself that what if the fawn was abandoned, and what if you wanted to take on the responsibility of looking after it, which for me would then translate to: I am going to have to look it, they will make me look after it. But I don’t know how. It’s too big a responsibility. I’m just a little boy, and no one will help me, mum and dad won’t tell me how to do it, I will have to do it all by myself. And what if I don’t do it right, god, what if it died! And then they would say I was stupid and an idiot and everyone knows what a fawn needs, so why didn’t you look after it properly. And this is only the tip of my iceberg for it goes on and on deeper and deeper into all my problems, all my worries and fears, which encompasses all I’ve uncovered about myself through my healing. And all because - I couldn’t tell anyone how I felt. And no one cared. No one wanted to listen.
I told Marion about your fawn and bicycle experience, how you owned your bad feelings and didn’t buy into your usual patterns, and as you said, gave you and your husband room, and look at the results. And she said, yes, we all have in our lives what we need at this time for us to do what we need to do. And so it’s right for her and I to be together to do our healing as we’re currently doing it, as it’s right for you and your husband. And were we to need someone else we’d leave each other moving onto the next person. And reading your posts Desire, and Wesley’s and Samantha’s, and hearing how your healing is and who’s involved in your lives, is all helping me see there is no formula or right or wrong way to do it other than the basics of allowing ourselves to accept our feelings whilst longing for the truth of them. And listening to you all is helping me appreciate and feel that actually I really like it like that, it all being such an individual experience for everyone, and one we live and find out for ourselves, not something we can be told how to do. ‘Now James, this is how you are to do your healing. When you feel bad...’ ‘Yes Gran’ - yawn, yawn. Move along, Next!
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