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Post by James on Jan 19, 2015 17:32:43 GMT 10
Monday, 19 January 2015 I’ve been posting these posts and comments on a thread on a Urantia Book forum truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5009I'm posting as Zn Jesus didn’t tell us how to heal ourselves of our evilness - of the rebellion and default that we all live. And neither does The Urantia Book. Jesus being perfect didn’t take on the imperfection that we all are, and heal it. So because of that he remained aside from or outside of the evilness by not directly being conceived and born into it, so he wasn’t able to tell us from his own personal life experiences how we might go about healing ourselves of our evilness as he didn’t experience healing himself of it. He didn’t cross the line. So that still remains, we still need someone to come and tell us how we can heal ourselves of our wrongness; and someone who comes and takes it all on themselves, heals themselves of it, and so is able to show us the way out of our darkness. This being what The Urantia Book refers to in saying: ‘He promised a new revelation of the kingdom on earth and at some future time’. From: P.1863 - §13 Although Jesus referred one phase of the kingdom to the future and did, on numerous occasions, intimate that such an event might appear as a part of a world crisis; and though he did likewise most certainly, on several occasions, definitely promise sometime to return to Urantia, it should be recorded that he never positively linked these two ideas together. He promised a new revelation of the kingdom on earth and at some future time; he also promised sometime to come back to this world in person; but he did not say that these two events were synonymous. From all we know these promises may, or may not, refer to the same event.Jesus has also returned so far as re-revealing the essential truths we need so we can be as he is - perfect and true, and living with our Heavenly Father. He did this through James Padgett early last century - re: The Padgett Messages. However even in these messages still he doesn’t directly tell us how we can heal our evilness and become perfect as he is; allowing us to believe that all we need do is long to our Heavenly Father for His Divine Love, and then somehow all our sins and errors will be removed from us. But this too doesn’t happen when you long for the Love, even though a lot of people believe it does. So with Jesus coming (through James Padgett) at the end of his Age of the Cross, re-revealing the essential truths we need so as to become divine and at-one with the Father, ONCE WE’VE HEALED OUR EVILNESS, so we still await a new presentation of truth - that which includes how we are to specifically heal all that’s wrong within us: how we can heal the Rebellion and Default out of us. And if you want a taste of this, then look at Divine Love Spirituality, as it’s a forerunner to this new proclamation of truth. For Jesus to fully come again in person with humanity still remaining evil would be a waste of his time - and more than likely, ours too. Nothing more would be achieved. He’d only be able to do what he has already done. He’d reveal the truths of divine love perfection and most people would reject them not wanting to follow him, as is seen by how we treated him all those years ago and how we still treat him with so few people embracing the Padgett Messages. So, when would Jesus return, should he do so? He would come, so I think, only when humanity is of a level of truth enabling everyone to fully embrace him. And that I imagine will be waaayyyyy in the future, when humanity has fully healed itself of all its rebellion and default. Possibly even when the morontia temple descends and he will come again through it so people will be able to see him and talk directly with him. P.1919 - §2 We most positively believe that Michael will again come in person to Urantia, but we have not the slightest idea as to when or in what manner he may choose to come. Will his second advent on earth be timed to occur in connection with the terminal judgment of this present age, either with or without the associated appearance of a Magisterial Son? Will he come in connection with the termination of some subsequent Urantian age? Will he come unannounced and as an isolated event? We do not know. Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.So, if we are to receive a new revelation, or rather, an extension or continuation of the revelation of truth started by Jesus, and the missing part be given to us - that being how we can specifically and completely heal ourselves, then it will have to come from an Avonal on a bestowal mission. Because he will have to submit himself to the wrongness; become fully of it, then heal himself of it, thereby healing all the circuits technically within him, all of which will give rise to his Spirit of Truth that he will liberate upon his death; that which will then oversee and guide all truth-seeking souls through the next Spiritual Age he will initiate, all helping people to heal themselves as he healed himself. This all then being overshadowed by Jesus’ Spirit of Truth. So if anything, I reckon we are to keep our eyes open for an Avonal bestowal Son; listen to how he has healed himself when he readily makes himself known publicly, then add what he says to what Jesus has revealed anew in the Padgett Messages, combining all that with a good dose of The Urantia Book, and we’ll be on our way to Paradise. We’ll then have at our disposal the full means of dealing with our sorrowful state of living untrue to ourselves. Healing our untruth, becoming perfect, embracing the Divine Love, and setting out on our ascension to Paradise. Because until we fully heal our evilness, we won’t be going anywhere despite what people want to believe. If you want to read more things along these lines withmarymagdaleneandjesus.weebly.com. However please understand you will need to keep a very open mind should you wish to look further into what it will take for you to heal yourself and become true. And... The Urantia Book infers that we await a Magisterial Son, but to this I disagree unless we are simply to have the end of our current age and the beginning of a new age, yet with things largely going on as they have done. Which would achieve nothing so far as helping people advance their soul. As we understand, a Magisterial Son would materialise as an adult, so being perfect and not of the Rebellion and Default. So such a Son would only be able to reveals the truths Jesus revealed, and with Jesus being higher than an Avonal, what would be the point, it would do nothing for humanity’s soul advancement of truth. So humanity would take what this Avonal Son has to offer - some would, some wouldn’t, and things would carry on as before. If we can’t heal our evilness from what Jesus has thus far revealed, then we’re hardly going to able to heal it from what a Magisterial Son would say even if he was able to do miracles and other ‘wonders’. And we haven’t healed our evilness yet, no one has, for if they had, we’d all know about it, and the truths of how they did it would have been made readily available and we’d all be able to do it - should we want to. So we can’t look to the past, as all that’s been given to us, including all Jesus said, has been embroiled in the evil, becoming part of the Rebellion and Default, even including what people are doing with the Padgett Messages and The Urantia Book by looking only to those sources as the means to heal their wrongness and advance their soul - when it can’t be done, as such sources don’t directly tell us how to heal our evilness.
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Post by James on Jan 19, 2015 17:34:23 GMT 10
I Must Speak, all I got was also a new perspective on life having read it, and a greater understanding about a lot of things, and an introduction to a lot of new things. I first came across the Padgett Messages not having been interested in Jesus previously, and they established in me that Jesus was indeed ‘The One’ and we are to ‘Follow him’; and as you said, that he understood us all having been on earth, and so was like an older brother to us in that sense. But still both these sources of information didn’t tell me how I was to heal myself of all my imperfections and wrongness - of which through my spiritual searching I was becoming increasingly aware of having a lot of. The important thing - at least for myself - is to understand that being evil as we are, with us all having gone off into rebellion and default, even if it would seem we haven’t willingly chosen to do so, it being put on us through our forming years, is that the likes of Jesus, the Padgett Messages and the UB can’t interfere with our negative state. Jesus and the authors of the UB papers are all true and perfect and not of rebellion, and they have no right interfering with how we are; being perfect they can’t and won’t come to us and say, hey, you are all-wrong, and this is how you can heal yourselves. They can only give us information to go on with so we can think more about the bad state we’re in. And then it’s up to us to work out how to heal ourselves, which many people are trying to do. But the problem lies in the fact that being of evil we can’t see our way clear of it, we’re not of a state that allows us to heal ourselves, so we’re stuck in it because of evil being what it is - rejecting any truth that we might find and so use to help ourselves out of our evilness. We rejected Jesus, and nothing in the UB disturbs us, it’s not confrontational, it doesn’t interfere with us, all allowing us to go along on our merry way believing we are helping ourselves and healing our wrongness when we’re not, when in fact we’re only advancing our mind by it using the information given to us to further cement ourselves into our wrongness without even knowing it. So that’s why we need an outside influence like an Avonal bestowal, as I said. All the religions and even the New Age are looking for someone - the saviour - to come, or the fifth dimensional change to happen, to release us from our pain, but these are only fantasies and will not happen. Jesus isn’t going to come swishing down on any cloud to vanquish the unbelievers carrying off the Chosen to the Promised Land. Why would he do that when he’s already done all he needed to do and we clearly showed him and the whole of Nebadon we didn’t want him. So he’s hardly going to come and go through all that again. And as he can’t come and interfere with our imperfection, so we need to look to someone else who’s soul is designed to come and help us. The Avonal soul can incarnate into imperfection - evil - and heal itself of it. Jesus’ soul can’t do that. Jesus can’t, as he didn’t, submit to becoming evil as we are, because for the Creator Son to suddenly become evil means the whole of Nebadon would have had to follow him into evilness, which wasn’t going to happen. So that’s what the Avonal’s are really for. They are the real saviours of the evil worlds. Jesus being the Creator Son came for the whole of Nebadon, he terminated the spirit level of the Rebellion, that level in which the perfect Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia and Daligastia rebelled, that being all he could do. But he couldn’t actually interfere with us people on the personal level of rebellion, so he didn’t reveal to us the truths necessary for us to get ourselves out of the mess we’re in. Whereas an Avonal can do that. The Avonal’s come only to specific worlds, so we need an Avonal to come specifically to heal and deal with the personal level of the Rebellion and Default we’re in. And this can only happen through a full bestowal incarnation. The UB isn’t allowed to directly interfere with our evilness, as I said, so its authors were not allowed to tell us about the need for an Avonal bestowal, yet you can read between the lines that that’s what we do need. They had to frame the book so as to be in keeping with all we understood up to its inception, expanding a little on what humanity had already worked out for itself or had had revealed to it. It’s not a personal revelation of truth such that an Avonal could and will make from first hand experience. The Avonal needs to be a blundering fool like the rest of us, someone who is wrong in all he does and says, someone who is evil but not necessarily evil as we only relate to it as in going out mass murdering and raping. Just someone who is untrue, can’t express himself truly through and with his feelings, is all bound up in his mind control, just as we all are. And then he works through it all, liberating the truth of why he is the dysfunctional mess that he is, all the while growing in the truth of his soul and so liberating himself from the clutches of evil he was subjected to through his growing up. And then with truth we can ‘follow him’ out of our darkness and into the light of becoming true to ourselves and our soul and no longer being anti-truth, anti-love, and anti-life. Too many people look to the UB and the Padgett Messages - these being the only two sources of information lately to have been revealed to us that can actually help point us in the right direction - for all they need, but after years of reading the book wonder why they still haven’t really changed. And by change I mean: why your life is still not working perfectly, why you’re still not perfect, why you’re not living as Jesus lived in the perfection of truth; still wondering what truth actually is, still wondering what it’s all about, still looking.... So new information needs to be given to us on a very personal level as to how we can actually go about healing our wrongness. For example, you smoke, it’s wrong to smoke so far as being perfect and true to your soul goes. You only smoke because you are using it to fill in some gap, to hide some bad feeling you are refusing to acknowledge - that you don’t feel fully loved. But what is that bad feeling, what really is causing you to smoke? And this is the truth you will have to find out - what beliefs and behaviour patterns are within you causing you to smoke; how did they come about through your early childhood; what was the relationship with your parents like so as to cause you to feel bad, making you now as an adult need to smoke so you can pretend to yourself you don’t feel bad? And when you uncover the truth of what went on in your relationship with your parents in an unloving way that caused you to now smoke, then you will understand the truth of yourself more, then you’ll be advancing in truth, then you’ll be truly advancing your soul. And you’ll have taken one step out of your evilness, one step closer to being true and perfect. And when you’ve healed all your deep hidden causes that are making you smoke, so you’ll no longer need to do it, so will stop. Neither Jesus or the UB helps us on that very personal level dealing with such real life problems. And that’s what we need. We need to understand how we can use our own bad feelings to go back into ourselves and liberate the truth we’re currently hiding from ourselves. This being the only way we can heal our evilness. Because our smoking as in this example (and the same applies to everything that makes us feel bad) is simply an outer sign that something is not right within us, all being a symptom of our wrongness - or of being evil. Evil being as you can see from this example, something far more than just being a bad person who hurts other people. Evil being EVERYTHING that we do and say, all how we behave, that is not being true - that is going against the truth of ourself, which is against the truth of our soul. So we need to look deeper than what we’ve been given superficially to go with in the UB and Padgett Messages. Both these sources are wonderful and essential to our full understanding and growth, only they need to be kept in perspective and seen for what they are; and seen also for what they can’t do. So we have to look elsewhere for how to heal ourselves, hence my links in my first post. And here is another one: www.childhoodrepression.weebly.com
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Post by James on Jan 19, 2015 17:35:51 GMT 10
Following the links provided by Yoder777 there are some interesting paragraphs relevant to what I want to contribute to this thread.
Page 231: When the progress of events on an evolutionary world indicates that the time is ripe to initiate a spiritual age, the Trinity Teacher Sons always volunteer for this service. You are not familiar with this order of sonship because Urantia has never experienced a spiritual age, a millennium of cosmic enlightenment. But the Teacher Sons even now visit your world for the purpose of formulating plans concerning their projected sojourn on your sphere. They will be due to appear on Urantia after its inhabitants have gained comparative deliverance from the shackles of animalism and from the fetters of materialism.
Following on from what I was saying about a possibly Avonal bestowal, this I believe would also give rise to a new Spiritual Age of which the Trinity Teacher Sons will be present, and of which will last for 1000 years.
You see humanity has gone off track, as we understand from the UB, and it needs its evilness to be terminated completely on the spirit level - which Jesus did, and then on the physical level, which an Avonal can do. Then we are to be given 1000 years help with the Daynals so as to help us heal at least enough of our evilness to end the runaway train that we’ve become, and get us back on track, heading in the right direction towards healing ourselves completely of being evil, so humanity can continue on perfecting its soul after the 1000 years as it moves toward Light and Life.
So if what I believe is true, then the Teacher Sons will, so I imagine, focus mostly, if not only, their efforts on helping those people who want to fully heal themselves of their evilness. Because it will be then some of those people who are healing themselves or have fully healed themselves who will be:
On page 2082: Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus’ religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men.
One can’t be exclusively devoted if one is still entrenched in ones self-denial wrapped up in ones controlling mind deluding oneself that one is one of the new so-called spiritual teachers. We need teachers to help lead us out of our wrongness, not further into it.
And as women are more naturally closer to their feelings and more feeling expressive because of how we men have been made to deny our feelings so much, then it will more than likely be women who become the future spiritual leaders helping us men become more in touch with our feelings so we can use them to uncover the truth of our evilness. The UB is almost exclusively masculine orientated which is such a shame because it fails in speaking directly to women and including the Feminine Aspect Of Truth, but it was how humanity was during its inception in the West - so male biased. And it had to adhere to the tenets of the day.
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Post by James on Jan 23, 2015 22:39:17 GMT 10
These are some quotes of “section 10 - The Future” from Paper 195 I find interesting. I don’t quite understand what you’re saying I Must Speak in your first and last sentence, however I would like to comment on these quotes in the light of my highjacking this thread and where it might go.
(2086.2) 195:10.16 The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.
(2086.4) 195:10.18 Christianity is an extemporized religion, and therefore must it operate in low gear. High-gear spiritual performances must await the new revelation and the more general acceptance of the real religion of Jesus.
(2086.5) 195:10.19 If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus’ teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.
The UB puts such emphasis on Christianity because it’s the religion that’s the most underpinned by Jesus’ Spirit of Truth. However do we really need a formalised religion to love and follow Jesus with?
Undoubtedly Christianity has a lot to offer within it, but those parts I feel will need to be extracted from it and put into a new, true, ‘alive’, real and living spiritual system that’s founded on what Jesus tells us and more. It will need to include what Jesus tells us in the Padgett Messages, along with what the Avonal will reveal, and including most of what’s in The Urantia Book. And then also all that’s true from every other religion and spiritual system.
My reading of what the UB says is that somehow Christianity might evolve into a higher gear, somehow throwing off all the negatives TUB talks about it, and this might happen, but personally I can’t see it. I think something new needs to be created based on taking the truth from all the elements I have talked about whilst still with Jesus being the main masculine focus as well the Avonal Son when he fully comes of age. And then there is the whole feminine side to be introduced and included, that which neither the Bible, the Padgett Messages or TUB, or anything else for that matter, speaks about. And this is where Divine Love Spirituality comes in and is heavily focused, bringing in a well-rounded balance between the masculine and feminine, with a lot of what is revealed being I would imagine rejected by the more strict adherents of the Bible, PM and UB.
The UB says: “The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message...” and this is what I see Divine Love Spirituality is offering.
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Post by James on Jan 25, 2015 15:00:01 GMT 10
I like the name you’ve chosen for yourself I Must Speak. And so: Why must you speak?
If you want to answer my question, no doubt a reason for you using these words will come into your mind: I chose I Must Speak because of... However I’m not interested in that. What I would like to know is why you REALLY chose it. I haven’t chosen it for my Internet name, but you have, so why?
And so why from your feelings. You might like to try this:
Take a moment and ask your Heavenly Father to help you understand why you’ve chosen to call yourself I Must Speak THROUGH YOUR FEELINGS.
Then write what you feel, trying to keep your mind out it. Try to remain connected to your feelings not giving yourself away to your mind and its wanting to take over and tell yourself why.
And understand that it’s really for yourself, not for me; it is really about you wanting to know the deeper truth within yourself as to why you’ve decided to be known as I Must Speak. And if you don’t want to post what your feelings reveal to you, I understand. And you will possibly discover there is far more to calling yourself these three words than you had any idea about. And if nothing happens immediately but you want to keep going with it, you can keep asking the Father to help you to understand the truth of yourself through your feelings.
And this is how we grow in truth. This is how we ascend, with and through our feelings, and not with and through our mind, which is only transcending. We are to look to our feelings for the truth of ourselves, keeping our mind out of it as much as possible. Can you FEEL the difference?
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Post by James on Jan 25, 2015 22:20:54 GMT 10
I didn’t miss the humour in the name, it was predicable, but I was using the name because I Must Speak is really what applies to us all in one way or another. We all must speak the truth of our feelings, for if we don’t then we’re still speaking the truth of the Rebellion and Default - the truth of our minds that have been led astray. So I was using your name as an example to illustrate this point; and also, should you or other people actually be interested in looking for the truth of their feelings, of embracing their ascension to Paradise, then you or anyone else reading this might consider praying and longing to the Father to help you understand how important your feelings really are. And more importantly, to understand how you are denying so many of them, because we all are.
Neither TUB nor the Padgett Messages, or any other religion or spiritual system specifically tells us how we can ascend - what we have to do in a very practical way to grow and evolve our soul in truth. Many people believe they are growing and evolving, gaining enlightenment and so forth, but in that they are mistaken for they are only advancing their minds at the expense of uncovering the truth of themselves through their feelings.
Humanity still awaits the truth to be made available for it to end the Rebellion and Default. For each person to understand how they can do it for themselves. And them for us all to do it collectively. And until one understands how to look to ones feelings, and in particular ones bad feelings, for the way to liberate and reveal the truths God wants them to see, then one will forevermore go around in circles lost to their wrongness.
You might see it all as a big joke I Must Speak, however I assure you, it’s not, it’s all very serious. And there is more in your name, as to why you chose it (as I said, other than the reasons you said which was your mind speaking), however you’d have to be willing to do the hard work to find such deeper connections within yourself.
None of us have any beauty or goodness whilst we’re all evil, despite what people might want to believe about themselves. There is nothing good or beautiful about evil, which is the whole point of what we’re all meant to see through our lives of being untrue. However because we’ve all been brought up in the wrongness, all made to turn away from our true feelings, so we use our mind to pretend we see beauty in ourselves and each other and believe we are good. Nature is the only thing on our world that is truly good and beautiful. Humanity will only be so once it has fully healed itself of its rebellion and default - so not for a very long time.
And how do I feel? Angry because evil starts to get predictable and I am still trapped within it, still part of it, and I hate being as I am. And even though you are young and I am getting older, still we’re in the same boat of nothing being truly right. And that boat as so many holes in it, and I’m fed up with trying to bail out my part. I am trying to give up the fight and instead allow my feelings to sink me, all so I can continue to uncover the truth of myself.
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Post by James on Jan 26, 2015 22:59:04 GMT 10
What I am trying to point out is that yes, certainly we are to be inspired by Jesus, that goes without saying, however we will never be able to live perfectly as he lived until we heal ourselves of our rebelliousness. And by reading a book and expanding your mind with a lot of information is not the way to heal yourself. And that Jesus didn’t show or tell us how to specifically heal ourselves; and if we want to grow in truth, then it’s to our feelings we need to look, coming out of the allurements and trappings of our mind.
One can go on discussing the information within TUB for eons yet still never actually progress in one soul truth and evolution, which is of course okay if that’s what one wants. However I am writing appealing to those people who don’t want this or who understand that there is more than just discussing books but possibly are not sure as yet how to go about getting on with it.
For examples of people who are doing their healing through their feelings whilst longing to be at-one with and as perfect as their Heavenly Father, you might like to visit dlscr.freeforums.net
101:1.3 The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. "Without holiness no man may see the Lord." All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.
Bart, I am not disputing what TUB says about ones thoughts leading us Godward, however I don’t think it goes far enough in speaking about our relationship with our feelings and how they are connected to our revealing truth to ourselves. Sure, we have to decide - choose, to be as true and perfect as the Father is, using our mind. And if we do, then we’re allowing our Indwelling Spirit to have more of a direct say in our lives. Yet behind such a choice is still a desire - a feeling. We still have to feel we want to live at-one with God. And it will be feelings that drive our desire to make the connection, to reach out to God. We might think and believe we should and want to do it, but we still need to be empowered on the feeling level to actually do it.
We are entangled in a myriad of erroneous beliefs which then limit our true thoughts and consequently our true feelings. It is right not just to act following ones feelings and emotions without apply ones mind in certain situations, however what we fail to understand, and what TUB doesn’t tell us, is that so many of our feelings are resulting from these erroneous beliefs and so thoughts of our untrue mind. So these feelings could be said to be untrue. So what I am presenting is the way to use feelings to go back into oneself which will bring to light the problems in ones mind, it’s wrong beliefs and associated behaviour, so we can then bring our mind and feelings into harmony with our soul and Indwelling Spirit. This being completed when we’ve finished our healing, when we’re no longer evil.
TUB has been written mostly for the perfect person, someone who is not in rebellion or default. And so we can’t take all of what is says literally, applying it and so believing we’re truly ascending, because by doing so we’re not taking into account our wrongness that’s messing everything up. TUB talks about how the Rebellion and Default came about and some of its negative effects we’re suffering under, however it doesn’t go into the specifics of what it’s done to us, not enough for us to get ourselves out of the mess.
Let me ask you a question: Can you honestly say you are growing in truth every day and so are ascending your soul to Paradise?
And do you answer this question with your mind or with your feelings - which is the most important to you? Do you think you are ascending or do you feel you are ascending?
To discount and dismiss feelings can do one serious spiritual harm. The Rebellion is all about dismissing feelings and not taking them seriously or learning what we even have them for and how we can use them to grow in truth. Would you rather say: I believe something, so it is true - using your mind; or, I know something is true because I feel it is with all my heart?
The decision we need to make is: Do we go with our mind or with our feelings - which is it going to be? And for all these years humanity has gone with its mind, just as you are saying you want to do, and look where it’s got us.
The Rebellion has screwed up our inner and outer relationship with the Eternal Son and Infinite Spirit. The Son represents truth and feelings; the Spirit, thoughts and the mind. We have grown up putting the Infinite Spirit first, we’re making it lead, making the mind take control, and have control over our feelings. And that’s where we have gone wrong and why no one is truly happy and why we’re causing ourselves so much pain and suffering. So we have to rectify this relationship. We have to make the Son - the truth through looking to our feelings, lead, with the Spirit, and so mind, in support - helping us do that. And until we do that, which is done as we do our Feeling-Healing or Soul-Healing with the Divine Love, we’ll continue on in our deluded state that we’re growing in truth and advancing our soul when all we’re really doing is binding ourselves greater into our evilness through our mind.
''(1766.2) 159:3.6 Sometime the children of the kingdom will realize that strong feelings of emotion are not equivalent to the leadings of the divine spirit. To be strongly and strangely impressed to do something or to go to a certain place, does not necessarily mean that such impulses are the leadings of the indwelling spirit.''
Coop, I’m not saying that strong feelings or emotions are leadings from our adjusters. They are merely what they are, strong feelings or emotions, however they are not bad nor should be dismissed, they are a vital part of our personality expression. And neither am I suggesting that we only act on our feelings alone, because how can we know if such feelings are true or not just something our wayward mind might be making up. What I am suggesting is for example, should you feel angry about something, say that driver cut me off and I’m raging made with him, instead of wanting to follow and act on those feelings and go punch the bloke, I am suggesting to fully acknowledge the anger and not dismiss it, like a lot of people do not wanting to add to their stress load or even because they believe it’s wrong to be angry. Then to want to know why you are angry being cut off like that at that time, because at another time you might not be angry about the same thing happening. And then to work those angry feelings by speaking about them, expressing them the best you can, all whilst you want to know the deeper underlying and hidden reasons why you are angry; which when you find them, will have nothing to do with being cut off by that other driver. And when you work them right back within you, you’ll discover that that drivers actions represent something your parents did to you that make you just as angry when you were growing up. And when you understand that part of yourself and your relationship with your parents that wasn’t loving as it made you angry, then you will give rise to truth about yourself. And this is growing in truth through your feelings.
I Must Speak, obviously I made you feel bad with my posts in some way. So you either have the choice of hitting back at me (using your mind), trying to regain the power you felt you’ve lost (that I’ve taken from you), or you can submit to those bad feelings using them to look deeper into yourself trying to understand why what I said made you feel bad.
And this is the choice we have with our minds: to either use them to override and dismiss and even reject our feelings; or to go with them, into them, looking for what they are trying to show and tell us about ourselves.
Coop has quoted, a nice section all about the mind, however why doesn’t TUB have also a nice section all about feelings? Are feelings not as important as the mind? And if not, then why do we have them?
TUB, for all its greatness is, which one must always bear in mind, a limited revelation, and one that is in keeping with the mandates of the Rebellion and Default, so by strictly adhering to it you will not cross the line moving deeper into yourself being led through your feelings. Too many so-called great spiritual teachers have focused on the mind, teaching to use your mind to control totally your feelings and you home free - enlightenment and all-knowledge is yours, and you’ll even be at-one with God. However if we were simply to use our mind to reject, dominate and dismiss our feelings, and particularly our bad ones, then why have them. Jesus even had bad feelings and he was perfect. Was he swanning around spouting off about being all-loving and living in bliss, using your mind to create your reality; did he say we are to use our mind to conqueror our feelings - mind over matter and your feelings don’t matter?
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Post by James on Jan 27, 2015 22:36:41 GMT 10
“Your premise results in a conclusion that souls are lost until someone comes to save us all....a rather quaint if stale assertion. We are fully encircuited with Spirit and lots of people are living in love and in service and are devoted to truth, beauty, and goodness. I don't know how many of course but it is not so rare to find upon my daily walk people who are quickened by love and truth and beauty and goodness and are led by their ideals, hopes, prayers, and faith.”
It seems to me fanofVan that you fail to understand the significance of what the Rebellion and Default actually are, and their impact on us and how immeshed we are in them. The whole point of what TUB is telling us about these two things is that we’re completely bound up in them - lost to them, we are them, every fibre of our being is them, they having complete control over us. So we are lost souls - lost to the truth of ourselves, and we’re unable to do anything about our situation despite what you assert by saying “We are fully encircuited with Spirit and lots of people are living in love and in service and are devoted to truth, beauty, and goodness.” And we do need someone to come and save us - wasn’t that the whole point of Jesus’ coming? Isn’t he the saviour?
What I want to point out is that it’s not good enough just choosing to live a life in love and service because of the underlying controlling and negative influences we’re suffering from. All the religions and decent spiritual systems, including TUB and Padgett Messages assert love and service is the way to go, which is so far as it goes is all very well were we all true and perfect and not living subject to the control the Rebellion has over us. But we’re not true and perfect, we’re imperfect and very untrue.
So this is what I mean when I say Jesus and TUB are really speaking to people that are not subject to the limitations imposed on them by the rebellion. Remember Jesus is really speaking to the whole of Nebadon, to far more people and spirits who are not of rebellion and default. Jesus says for example according to TUB from what coop posted “(1609.6)... How easy for you to become self-deceived and thereby fall into foolish fears, divers lusts, enslaving pleasures, malice, envy, and even vengeful hatred!" And: (1610.2) 143:2.7 “Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear.”, and we all understand this is true because we’re all already self-deceived by being conceived into rebellion; and it’s all very well to be of such faith and unmoved by fear, but what do you do when you’re riddled with fear, terrified all the time and you can’t do anything to get rid of those fears? And this is where I am saying we need extra help. We need to know a practical way, and not some mind empowered New Age or old age religious prayer-practice, to help us go deep into ourselves to find and then deal with the reasons and causes of why we are so scared. Not just some mind way to bury such fears overriding them and then pretending that we’re loving and of service and now of such great faith that we don’t have to look under the rug where we swept all such fears, yet all of which are still there. If we were true and perfect, such as pre-Rebellion or once we’ve healed ourselves of our wrongness, then we’d not be so easily subjected to the temptation of such things, nor would we be full of fear, and we’d be naturally living with greater self-faith, we would be living with far more spiritual and natural love integrity instead of being riddled with such ‘weakness’. So what Jesus and TUB says we’d be able to apply with greater ease.
And one also surely at some point has to ask; yes, I do have such tendencies - but why do I? Why can’t I live being good and all-loving and not still plagued by my compulsions and unloving behaviour? And I don’t think the answer is because you’re not good enough yet in your loving service - you have to try harder, devote yourself more, do more prayer-time. I think, as Alice Miller the Swiss psychoanalyst points out, it’s all to do with how we were treated during our upbringing. And this is what we need to explore, confront, face, accept and deal with as part of healing of ourselves out of rebellion and default.
People such as yourself who say all we need do it devote ourselves to being good, true and beautiful, doing acts of kindness and being of service, loving our fellow man and so on, fail to understand that one is only doing that STILL WITHIN AND PART OF ones rebelliousness. It is not actually helping one heal oneself of ones wrongness, it is simply applying ones mind to act how one believes or thinks is the right way to act. So it’s actually striving to perfect living in ones wrongness by asserting ones will with ones mind, with such a way of living being destined for the natural love mind mansion worlds in spirit upon death, there to carry on ‘doing the good work’ for others and on themselves. And thereby confining oneself to the isolation sectors of the Rebellion and Default on those worlds, maintaining ones delusion of ‘loving service’ without actually advancing ones soul toward Paradise.
I am trying to show that one can be misled by using ones mind in such a way, and that if one were instead to look to ones feelings for the truth of why one even wants to act and be like this, then you’ll be lead down into your Childhood Repression to uncover deeper causes and reasons, understanding how you express your rebelliousness and so evil in the world. As I said, wanting to know the truth of: Why you are of it, how it was passed onto you by your parents, how you took on what they told you, and how you will be or will have passed on your version of wrongness to your children.
I am wanting to blow the whole Rebellion and Default apart within oneself. To confront every tiny last aspect of it. To find ones true self, to stop being lost to the truth, to stop the control of ones mind over ones true feelings.
I am not wanting to toe the line as TUB does and even Jesus to some extent. I want to cross the line and go down deep into my darkness uncovering all the reasons why I am so full of fear, why I do envy, hate, despise, lust, and why I am full of anger, misery, pain and suffering. I don’t want to ignore all of that by applying my mind to make such bad feelings go away because I am now all-loving and doing good service by helping others. I want to help and love myself first, by fully acknowledging, honouring and accepting all the bad stuff that I am. By facing it, owning up to it, and seeing why I am full of it. This being uncovering the whole true of myself - why I am the way I am. To fully embrace and comprehend the truth of my evilness. This being, so far as I am concerned, how one truly advances one soul in truth and understanding of oneself.
Thank you everyone for your comments. You’ve helped me to see even more how insidious Evil is. And also more how masterfully TUB has been crafted to toe the line without interfering with our wrongness at all.
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Post by James on Jan 28, 2015 22:23:27 GMT 10
Yes, I see, fanofVan, I have a better idea now about how you see it. I think I’m correct in that you’re saying that as the Rebellion is over, so humanity is free to be as it was before it, so being of our dual nature with the freedom to choose to be evil or not. And then to advance ones soul means to love and serve unconditionally with the advancement coming naturally through time and experience. And that presumably, we’re still in a bit of a pickle suffering deprivations owing to the Rebellion because the universal administration and hierarchy needed to govern our world has still not been fully reinstated - hence our continued isolation from the main circuits. And it is roughly as I also understand it, how people who adhere mostly to the Padgett Messages see it too, only also including longing directly to the Father for His Divine Love. But as you understand, it’s not how I see it. And to try and sum up how I see it in one paragraph, I would say, that we are all living untrue because of still being caught up in the legacy of Rebellion and Default, and the only way we can extricate ourselves from our pain and suffering is by looking to our feelings, and particularly our bad ones, to uncover the truth of what’s really going on inside us. This being truly loving and serving ourselves - first. We need to first fully concentrate of healing ourselves of our wrongness. And we can do this whilst longing to God for His Divine Love, or not longing for it, depending on how much of a personal relationship we want with our Heavenly Father. And once we’ve healed ourselves of our wrongness - evilness, THEN we are free to live as you believe, as we’ll be living true to ourselves being fully self-loving, so we can get on expressing that love by loving and helping others, nature and God.
And this as I see it is hopping over and refusing to look at the deep hidden causes of ones inner torment and trauma, by looking to follow Jesus without first attending to ones own wrongness. Which is why I am postulating the need further help, hence an Avonal bestowal, to shed light on how we are to go about healing our Childhood Repression and everything else associated with the Rebellion and Default we’re suffering from.
I agree with you as enlightening being merely part of the process, with self-enlightenment being a fantasy, that being how the East and New Age desire it from what I gather, however that sort of self-enlightenment is not what I’m talking about.
It’s also interesting that you have quoted “sin is not transmitted from parent to child”, which I agree with, because it would be a bit too harsh if we got burdened with our parents sins as well as all the rest we absorb and pick up from them. And again I am not suggesting that we receive our parents sins, only that we’re greatly influenced by our parents on all levels, most of which we have no conscious idea about; and as I believe we’re still living subject to the full legacy of the Rebellion and Default, so such influences are ‘passed on’ to us, which we need to understand by healing our Childhood Repression.
And finally, my only personal difficulty is: What if you realise you can’t love, what do you do then?
So thank you for your time and effort in finding those quotes and conveying your personal opinion; and as I don’t see the point of continuing on as our respective positions are now quite clear, I will desist and move on.
And no, I am not Louis/loucol.
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Post by James on Jan 31, 2015 22:24:28 GMT 10
I didn’t feel like posting anything further on the Urantia Book forum. I saw how most people see things according to what the book says, and as I’ve written below, I think that’s all too shallow and doesn’t do anything for us so far as growing in truth, only further advancing ones mind and wrongness believing they are becoming more loving.
I was intending to post what I’d written below but then I worked through more stuff as to why I want to post anything, and now have come back to only posting it on my forum. I realised that I don’t have the inclination, or the ability to convince someone to see things my way. I don’t know how to win an argument - I don’t even want to argue! And of course I would love everyone to see things my way, for everyone to believe what I do - don’t we all want that, don’t we all want to be friends on our terms? I can only say what I think and feel and leave it at that. If anyone agrees to my way of seeing things, great, and I’d like them as my friends, but I don’t want to try and win friends or win anyone ‘For The Kingdom’.
Jesus says (according to TUB) we can learn how to love, but I would ask him: why do we need to learn how to do it - why don’t we just love naturally anyway? And how do you learn to love - is there a school for that? All the creatures naturally love, as does a baby and little child, they don’t have to learn; and we as children would have kept doing so if our unloving parents hadn’t knocked it out of us. So how does someone who is damaged, ‘learn how to love’, when all their natural love circuits are not working properly?
130:7.2 When Ganid inquired what one could do to make friends, having noticed that the majority of persons whom they chanced to meet were attracted to Jesus, his teacher said: “Become interested in your fellows; learn how to love them and watch for the opportunity to do something for them which you are sure they want done,” and then he quoted the olden Jewish proverb— “A man who would have friends must show himself friendly.”
Jesus (as it’s all one can do anyway) is speaking from his own experiences. He grew up feeling loved by Mary and Joseph. Ganid too obviously grew up feeling loved and well respected by his father as shown simply by the fact that his father thought well enough of his son to employ Jesus to accompany them to Rome as his sons personal guide and teacher. Ganid was not feeling like a waste of space, no good, nothing, useless, vile, evil, unloving, and an unlovable wretched pathetic creature. He wasn’t lacking in self-esteem, hating himself for being unable to be successful in the world. Ganid wasn’t riddled and overwhelmed with bad feelings suffering from depression, full of despair and feeling miserable most of the time. What would Jesus have said to such a hopeless person had be been asked to accompany him? What would Jesus have said so far as advising one how to deal with such pain and suffering; the whole tragedy of feeling so desperately unloved by your parents that you feel ostracised, despised and hated by the whole world? What would Jesus have said to all the lost cases, all the people who give up on themselves and who the world gives up on? How would he have advised them? How would he have dealt with their fractured minds seeing there was such a huge gulf to bridge between them and having just one moments good thought and feeling about themselves and the Father? And what can one say to such people: pray to God for His Divine Love and you’ll be okay? ‘“Become interested in your fellows; learn how to love them and watch for the opportunity to do something for them which you are sure they want done” (130:7.2). It’s that simple...’ Is it really that simple? So what happens to those poor unfortunate people, how are they saved, how are they dealt with? And do they have to wait until they are in spirit where presumably higher more divine and benevolent spirits, perhaps even Jesus himself, can come and love and serve them back into a state of being able to cope and deal with their own pain. What happens to the seriously lost? It’s easy, it’s so simple to make friends if you have come from a loving family and you find it easy to be interested in people, and can even love them as you were loved and can help them should they require it. But there is a huge amount missing, a large gulf between what almost becomes meaningless platitudes about how to love for the person who’s not even in a ‘normal’ state of mind to grasp such meaning and act upon them as truth. Is it enough to simply offer such quotes from a book and then we’re all meant to take it from there, applying such quotes because it’s the next revelatory instalment, thereby living happily ever after? What happens when you’ve read TUB, the PM, been a good Christian or tried other faiths, you tried your best and still you don’t feel happy? What happens when you try all that’s supposed to make you feel good as it seems to make other people feel good, and yet still you feel unhappy, miserable and full of inner torment? What happens when you’ve tried the addictive stuff, you’ve been through copious amounts of therapy, when you can’t kill yourself, you’re so pathetic you don’t even have the means within yourself to do that, and you are at the end... where do you go then? So where do you go when you break down, when your mind collapses, when you fall and can’t go any further. Is the book enough? I don’t believe we’ve had revealed to us enough to give us - the whole of humanity, from the one who feels the best to the one who feels the absolute worst - the means of really coming to terms with the problems at hand. For me all we have been given has been skirting around the edges, but it’s not gone for jugular, and until we receive such help, nothing is really going to change, because nothing has changed. And you can say things are getting better, or at least they can’t get any worse because we are all underpinned by Jesus’ Spirit of Truth, but still, there’s not much comfort to be had from it for those people who are dragging themselves through every day with only sleep each night bringing blessed relief that another horrible day is over. Because Jesus didn’t experience the full depths of the horror and madness we’re all in, his Spirit of Truth can’t reach down into the murky gloom and bring comfort to those who are incapable of even entertaining the notion that there was a man called Jesus who talked about love and how to have friends, and who pointed out that God is loving and is our loving Heavenly Father, when all that God has done is made one suffer - endless suffering and pain. Jesus’ Spirit of Truth means we can’t get any worse than we are, it’s a safety net if you like, preventing us now from moving deeper into rebellion under our own choosing, but still it’s not personal enough to move deep into being with us in our own personal misery and sadness, all because he personally didn’t experience what it was like to live feeling how bad it feels feeling so unwanted and unloved, that no one cares about you, and that you can’t love and are unlovable. We have Jesus’ cloak of love and truth about us, it is there waiting for us to put it on, and it seems like some people are able to pull it a little tighter about themselves, but we still need someone to come and show us how to wear all our clothes properly, under and outer clothes; then fully dressed we can well and truly tuck ourselves into Jesus’ cloak, wrap ourselves completely up in it to prevent even the slightest draught from creeping in and making us feel bad. So I feel we’re still waiting for another Spirit of Truth to be liberated, even though TUB says there is no need for it. One that becomes the under and outer clothes, which we can wear with Jesus’ cloak then coming about us over the top of them.
(Bearing in mind in these posts for the Urantia Book forum I’ve been speaking only about Jesus and his Spirit of Truth, the Father and future Avonal Son, not including Mary and her Spirit of Truth, the Mother and the future Avonal Daughter. I didn’t want to include the feminine side of things as it is too far removed from TUB.)
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Post by James on Feb 9, 2015 22:53:22 GMT 10
These are two other posts I’d written for the Urantia Book forum but didn’t post as I felt I’d had enough do to with that forum.
(1010.4) 92:5.16 The future of Urantia will doubtless be characterized by the appearance of teachers of religious truth — the Fatherhood of God and the fraternity of all creatures. But it is to be hoped that the ardent and sincere efforts of these future prophets will be directed less toward the strengthening of interreligious barriers and more toward the augmentation of the religious brotherhood of spiritual worship among the many followers of the differing intellectual theologies which so characterize Urantia of Satania.
This suggests that the One World Religion might sound like a good idea, that really all the worlds religions and spiritual systems should somehow pool their resources of truth and create a homogenised new religion that would in theory satisfy everyone. However the trouble with this approach as many people on the Internet talk about it, is failing to understand that all the worlds religions and spiritual systems are part of our wrongness, they are all helping to perpetuate our evilness (rebellion and default), so we might be able to blend them together, but that would only lead to ONE BIG EVIL RELIGION, irrespective of the truths involved.
We need to heal ourselves of our wrongness, then once in our true and perfect states, being rebellion and default free, think about what sort of religion we’d form, because only then we’d be living cognisant of truths needed in its formation. One day, way off in the future I see that this is where humanity is to get to, it has to, humanity has to one day heal completely all traces of its evilness, but we won’t see it in our lifetimes.
At best what we can hope to do is personally divest ourselves of all the religious and spiritual wrongness that’s part of our negative love-denying state. Doing this through what I call our Feeling-Healing or Soul-Healing that includes the Divine Love; and within oneself as one seeks the truth and perfection of ones soul through ones feelings, thereby forming ones own personal and so personalised ‘religion of truth’. And then possibly in time people who are doing their healing or have done it might come together in celebration of their achievement, simply wanting to live with other like-minded, like-feeling and truth-living souls, possibly even starting small communities based on their new found freedom, having set themselves free of being enslaved to their minds. But as I said, that’s still a way off too because first of all people have to seriously want to embrace healing their soul, desiring to live true to themselves, true to all they feel, and to end their evilness. And doing ones healing is very hard taking many years. So as much as I’d love to see people coming together to live their ‘new truth’, I’m not holding my breath. If such a thing is to happen on Earth, I think I’ll be watching it from spirit, my time down here having come well and truly to an end.
(1009.1) 92:5.7 But regardless of the superstitious awe in which they were often held, it remains a fact that these teachers were the temporal personality fulcrums on which the levers of revealed truth depended for the advancement of the morality, philosophy, and religion of mankind.
From what I read on the Internet a lot of people would love to be one these teachers, and many even possibly believe they are. However I think that such teachers of the future will come from people who have healed themselves completely of their evilness. I think humanity has had more than enough time to do what it can do so far as evolving and outworking the current day truth-denying religions. I think such rebellion-based systems will slowly be passed by as other truth and ways comes to light as revealed by these future teachers who have looked within and found all the causes of their wrongness, and have grown in truth through such personal spiritual investigation.
And by ‘looking within’ I am not referring to people undertaking Eastern practices or looking to all the New Age self-empowerment rubbish that only serves to further empower one’s evilness, I mean truly looking deep into the heart of ones pain through ones feelings. By healing all their Childhood Repression and all the problems that result from it.
Basically we’re sick of the control. If you still wish to remain in your religion subjecting yourself to its control over you, for that’s what it amounts to no matter how much control within it you might believe you have, then you are still buying into the Rebellion and Default, for that’s all it seeks to do - have control over us all.
The Doctrine of Liberty and Freedom is all very well for the Evil Ones, the higher spirits that started it. But all it means is those under them, such as humanity, is to ditch one God, the Heavenly Father who does love us without condition, for a set of false god’s, or just Satan as so many people persist in believing, who are completely controlling and totally conditional.
We delude ourselves into believing we’re free, however was that how our parents parented us - completely unconditionally? No! Stop that! It was: DO AS I SAY; it was all conditional: IF YOU DON’T BEHAVE... We have all been forced into the Rebellion and Default, forced to willingly take it on, forced by our parents to go against our true selves, forced to go against our will, forced to do their will and not our will, all whilst being given the erroneous believe that we’re doing the best we can for ourselves, that we are totally free to do as we please. But are we, are we really so free?
To become truly free means to liberate oneself from one evilness - there is no other way.
So False Teachers are merely people believing they have the answers, and believing they are free of their parents control, free to do as they please in life. And they are simply people who unbeknownst to themselves are only perpetuating more of the Rebellion and Default.
To become a True Teacher, we first have to be that for ourselves, which we do as we look to our feelings to reveal the truth of our wrongness. And as we grow in such truth, so too are we liberating ourselves from our evilness, so will live the truth of such perfection, so becoming true to ourselves. And no doubt, from within the ranks of such people, some will feel inspired to shed light on and teach about the truths they are living having won them through the healing of their soul.
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Post by James on May 27, 2015 22:10:20 GMT 10
Maybe there is no Avonal bestowal to come after all.
I’m writing this mostly for myself. There is a reason for my writing it, only it’s rather obscure at the moment and I don’t want to post that. However I’m going to put this on the forum because it is ‘part of my writing’, but possibly in time, should there be an Avonal pair, it will be suitable only for the delete button. And if there is no need of such a pair, then I’ll have to do some serious editing of my work at some point before I die. (I’m not looking forward to that, I hope they come!)
So I have to consider this: that all I’ve been told my Mary and Jesus and other spirits concerning an Avonal bestowal is not right, with their telling me only because I wanted it to be true. So I might have made it all up - I might have made everything up! So what if there is no Avonal pair, and can I relate to that in regards to all I’ve written? Possibly, I’m still working on it. These are my latest thoughts.
So if there is not be any Avonal bestowal I would then have to accept that we can use Mary’s and Jesus’ Spirits of Truth to help us do our healing, even though they didn’t become of the Rebellion themselves and heal it, with such information not being part of their Spirits of Truth. I have said (as they told me) the reason why no one that I am aware of (and surely had someone, they would have said something about it) has done their healing is because we’ve needed the Avonals help, and it’s not enough just to have Mary’s and Jesus’ Spirits of Truth, but I do find this hard to believe, however I will press on.
So if that’s the case, then at best we can expect and Avonal pair to suddenly materialise into adult form or merely come in spirit, seen possibly by only a few chosen people with ‘eyes to see’ - who can see spirits, and/or ‘ears to hear’ - who can hear spirits, coming and telling us nothing more than what Mary and Jesus said, so nothing about our healing as they too would have had no first hand personal experience about healing it, as they’d not become of it. However possibly they could tell us impersonally about it, so the theory of it, from which we could then do it along with the help of Mary’s and Jesus’ Spirit of Truth.
And possibly Marion is correct as she says she found out about how to do her healing herself and with help from other people, she putting it altogether herself, so why can’t other people do that too, and possibly they have already done over the years only have not been known.
And so if Marion is right being able to wake up to the truth and work out how to do it by herself, as far as I’m concerned she is one in a million, but perhaps there are other one in a millions too, only none of them, like herself, have felt the need to document their experiences or present them in a form that can help other people do their healing, like what I want to do. However I find it hard to believe that during the past two thousand years other people have worked out to heal themselves, have done so achieving a Celestial level of truth whilst still of flesh, and not a peep out of them. Unless some grand conspiracy has been able to remove all they might have written or all anyone might have written and recorded about them.
So possibly if we’re not going to get a full bestowal pair we will get a materialising or visiting Avonal pair to remind us about what Mary and Jesus have said, so reiterating and expanding upon the Padgett Messages and sorting out what is true in the Bible and other old texts, helping us understand more about the healing should we need such help, or at least helping people become more aware of their need to do it, with their presence initiating the next spiritual age. So perhaps they are who will descend out of the clouds to save those who want to live true, by helping them understand the error of their ways and about their need to do their healing and long for the Divine Love, helping them understand about Mary and her importance and introducing us personally to our Divine Heavenly Mother, they arriving out of thin air instead of Jesus as so many people are hoping. Or simply, Jesus and Mary return, materialising themselves out of thin air and tell us about the need to do our healing and how to do it, just as they’ve helped me write about it all. And if this is what’s to happen, then they’ve told me porky pies again because of why... that I don’t want them to come because I want an Avonal pair to come so they’ve complied with my mind? But I don’t mind who comes, all so long as someone does, because I’d love to think the mess that we are in gets put to an end, at least the beginning of the end, the beginning of truly healing the Rebellion and a start of a new age. And going along this track, as much as I’d like a higher pair to come, that’s not to say they will, because for all I know the Mother and Father might want the Rebellion and all we’re doing in our wrongness to keep going for a much longer time, say another hundred years, a thousand, two thousand, ten... and humanity will destroy most of nature and most of itself, then suffer major set backs once again like in the past, and then start all over again in its rebelliousness outworking just a new phase. Or the cataclysmic upheavals might occur wiping a lot of humanity out, setting it back, and also then initiating a new phase of outworking the Rebellion with no sign of any Avonal or Mary and Jesus.
Going back to imaging an Avonal pair coming out of thin as full adults, surely they would create a stir and put a lot of pressure on particularly the Christians who would struggle to receive and accept them, possibly even reject them. So one would think they would do ‘Great Wonder’s’ just to impress the masses so people did at least consider them, instead of just writing them off as yet another ‘False Prophet’.
And that would possibly be a more spectacular and impressive show of spiritual power than say if an Avonal pair on a full incarnational bestowal were to one day stand up announcing themselves as two people who’ve been here all along, were conceived into evil but have healed themselves, with little to show for it other than the words they speak, asking people to believe what they say, as they’d not be able to give any proof. How can one prove or show one is perfect? They would not be like how Mary and Jesus were, as they were always true and perfect, glowing with the light of their souls - at least Jesus was, Mary keeping hers more subdued. Would the newly healed Avonal pair be glowing? And they’d be pretty old having taken years to struggle on through their healing with so much of it having to be done. I don’t think many people would be very impressed if Jesus did return but as an old man, the concept of Jesus being old doesn’t fit what we’re used to, so two old fart Avonals telling people they too can heal themselves and end their evilness if only they were to look to their feelings and allow themselves to feel all the pain that is locked away inside them, probably wouldn’t get many heads turning - turning away more likely. I can’t see the masses being too thrilled about hearing that. Unless of course once they were true, they too put on something of a cosmic show of their souls power, healing the sick and feeding the poor and doing all that would be expected by people who will only believe and even dane to listen should there be good reason to. And with our fixation on needing a good show and quick fix, so the angels would have to do their stuff making other people think that there might be something after all in what the old couple were saying.
I don’t know. I’m only speculating, wanting to write my latest thoughts. I have to be ever vigilant on myself as I don’t want to delude myself with any Avonal thing or anything else, so I have to examine such things and all I have written from time to time so see if I’ve going off on a tangent, as I certainly don’t want to be any Pied Piper leading others off on one too.
And lastly, for the moment at least, if an Avonal pair is to come materialising and telling us about our healing, why have I written all I have, why have Mary and Jesus and the other spirits told me all they have; would the Avonal pair just say the same things, or would they have new stuff to add? And if it were new, what else could they tell us - have I got it wrong or missed something vital, something that would make it easier for everyone to do, something more appealing. And for that matter, if their happens to be a Avonal bestowal pair, why is it necessary for me to write all I have - surely they’d do that... or would they... perhaps it’s for others, people who are part of humanity to write about it all, and they wouldn’t write anything just Jesus and Mary didn’t write anything.
Anyway, for those people who know for themselves the truth when they come across it, and choose to do their healing knowing it is doing something positive for them, whether an Avonal pair comes or not and in what capacity is immaterial. They are on their way to healing their evilness and that’s all that matters.
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Post by James on Oct 26, 2015 16:53:58 GMT 10
My latest thoughts about DLS
I’m slowly catching up with myself, with all I’ve written - slowly understanding what Divine Love Spirituality is. I was reading some quotes in The Urantia Book which made me realise a few things about DLS and myself, which I want to write about here.
First of all however I want to make a slight correction, or rather it’s more of an alteration, to something Mary and Jesus have said and which is part of DLS. And it concerns the coming of the Avonal Pair, in that, they should come, will come - one day, with all I am doing (and Marion by default as she’s not actively involved with it only wanting to stay focused on her own feelings and not going off into mind creations like DLS and all it involves) being a forerunner - preparing the way sort of thing. Anyway, Mary and Jesus have gone along with what I wanted by talking about this ‘Pair’, but today I want to say that as far as I’m concerned there is no such pair coming, and what would be the point anyway if they came and all they were going to say and teach was already revealed by Jesus and Mary through me (and Marion), the Padgett Messages and The Urantia Book. So without saying anything further, as I don’t want to at this time, still it all stands, again so far as what I believe, that it is and can only be an Avonal Pair that ‘fills in the gaps’ making a new revelation; however in this I might be mistaken and it might be that just ordinary mortals can do it, all because of the overshadowing by Mary’s and Jesus’ Spirits of Truth, with Marion and I being such people, as indeed is anyone who sincerely takes on the healing and wants to live Divine Love Spirituality. So it might sound confusing and contradictory, because I am confused, and so I’ll leave it at that.
From The Urantia Book: (2086.2) 195:10.16 The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.
(2086.4) 195:10.18 Christianity is an extemporized religion, and therefore must it operate in low gear. High-gear spiritual performances must await the new revelation and the more general acceptance of the real religion of Jesus.
(extemporize - verb 1. to perform, speak, or compose (an act, speech, piece of music, etc) without planning or preparation 2. to use (a temporary solution) for an immediate need; improvise)
So what is the new and enlarged presentation of Jesus’ saving message? And I believe it is Divine Love Spirituality. DLS however doesn’t take what Christianity is, trying to save the truth whilst discarding the untruth, because if we strive to live true to ourselves, which involves first doing our healing and freeing ourselves of our wrongness, then we’ll naturally be living all that Jesus and Mary are, we’d be living the same truths they lived when on Earth, and so we’d be truly following them and being as they are. Thereby being a new enlarged revelation ourselves, simply by living the truths that our soul reveals to us through our feelings.
Then I realised that the biggest difference between DLS and every other spiritual system is that it includes the psychological side of life, and is far more reaching than what professional psychology allows. Professional psychology in some areas scoffs at Alice Miller and yet she set the benchmark from where all psychology should really begin, with it all being focused on relationships, expressing oneself truly so as to have true and good and loving relationships, all dealing therefore with the fundamentals of oneself which were put in place during our forming years and the rest of our childhood. And so for a religion or spiritual system to include this, such as DLS does, means it’s doing something that no other system has done too much of, so it is light years ahead of the systems so many people are bound up in, all of which refuse to acknowledge such repressed early feelings, all of which mostly refuse to accept any feelings at all. Divine Love Spirituality doesn’t work if you’re not fully expressing all you feel. And although I have kept the Childhood Repression side of things somewhat separate, as in having its own website, really it’s the heart of what DLS is. If someone is to live DLS properly they will be able to take in all of CR not baulking at any of it, not resisting, and willingly wanting to explore every intricacy of their own feelings no matter where they lead them in life, all whilst longing for the truth of such feelings. More people visit and read DLS because it’s mostly theory, concepts, ideas, and perhaps is less threatening. Fewer people read CR because it means you have to start dealing with your yuk. But the new and advanced version of Jesus and Mary will never come into being unless people take on and fully embrace the feelings side of life, and all the psychology that goes with that. Daily I am confronted through my own feelings just how psychologically screwed up I am. Marion and I work all day sometimes on trying to nut out just what the fuck is going on in my head, how I see things and the resulting behaviour. And some of these psychological dysfunctions of mine we’ve been working on for years as they periodically come up. And they are very obtuse, if that’s the right word, I can hardly grasp them let alone gain some feeling about them, and I am full of them. And when we do finally work them out, then I can see them in other people, all of which helps me to see just how psychologically complex and confused and fucked up we all are. And we are, because the Rebellion has had tens of thousands of years to work on the minds of humanity, working all the weirdnesses into being what they are. And there are layers upon layers of them within each of us, all of which have to be brought out and understood; and so unless a spiritual system provides the framework of how to bring it all out and reasons why this needs to happen, then really it’s not serving to help anyone, and is going the other way, serving to add yet more psychological complexities to the already greatly tangled mess.
Jesus in the Padgett Messages along with The Urantia Book clearly steer away from the psychological problems we’re all in. It’s not their place to reveal such complexities to us. They have given us a broad outline and parameters within which we can place our minds which gets us at least looking along the right path. But to walk that path requires something else, more information, a NEW WAY, and that is what DLS is all about. And it’s what I’m all about, wanting to find this new way in myself because I don’t like how I’m living; and it’s what Marion wants to find, she wanting to live true to herself and her feelings because living untrue only makes her feel bad. And the bottom line is, we are in pain, and yet the PM and UB don’t reveal the way for us to deal with and heal that pain; and as such pain is psychologically driven resulting from the problems in the relationship between our emotional and mental states and our will - the psychic levels of reality if you like - then the new and enlarged revelation of these revelations needs to fully embrace these psychological areas, which really means - our feelings. What are our feelings, why really do we have them, and what are they for, and how do they affect us, and how can we use them, live with them, to uncover the truth of ourselves, the truth of our soul? Our feelings show us when something is wrong - we feel bad, so we can use them to help guide us through life bringing to light everything in our lives and within ourselves that’s making us feel bad, and helping us to understand why. So to feel bad, and then continue to deny those bad feelings, means you’re going keep feeling bad - feeling even worse. So to go the other way, to bring out those bad feelings when we feel them, means they come out, and along with them so too does all the pain their suppression and repression which our refusal to acknowledge and express is causing us come out.
What is it that we all really want? To be loved, to feel fully loved, and then to love, to be fully loving. As we know that is the only thing that will make us feel happy. And as we can’t live alone feeling completely in love with ourselves, being totally happy and not needing anyone else, so we need to feel loved by someone else as we need to love someone else. Being all-loving means we love and feel loved. We feel loved and that makes us feel good, and we love. We can’t feel bad and unloved and then love, even though many of us believe we can. We have to contrive such love, pretending it’s love and that we’re loving. So what do we want a religion or spiritual system to provide for us? And really it’s the way to be loved, to feel loved and to freely express that love, something which our lives should do. So life itself should be the religion and spiritual system we live, we don’t need a label, we all need to just feel loved and supported and cared about by everyone else, and free to fully express every feeling (particularly every bad feeling) we might have knowing we’ll still be fully wanted, loved and respected for doing so. And that we live with no fear of being rejected if we express feelings that other people don’t want, that we’ll always feel we’re an important part of everything, that our feelings and their expression is just as valuable, and indeed needed, to keep the whole going and evolving.
So we want a system that helps us to have true and loving relationships, one that is highly focused on the personal, it all being only about the personal; which means, if someone, one person, is not feeling right, then everyone must stop and attend to that person’s feelings encouraging them to express all their pain, all until it all comes out and they see the truth and so are happy again, then we can all go on. We don’t want to keep living in the impersonal systems that comprise our religions and spiritual systems, where the person is tolerated to a degree but all so long as they fit in with the outlined tenets, beliefs and acceptable status quo. All so long as you don’t go against the system you are welcome, the system comes first, not the individual person. So for a spiritual system to say fuck the system and to put the person first, is something humanity is yet to experience, and yet it’s something we all long for because it’s what we didn’t get in our families, it’s what we crave, it’s what needs to happen if we are ever to find any peace of mind.
My healing with Marion has been all about trying to break me down out of my impersonal family ways. To see how much control they have over me and how they’ve ensured that I can’t express my feelings, and all so long as I just keep talking about information and impersonal things everything is fine, all so my parents don’t have to then bother with me. If they have to deal with me personally they are then removed from their fantasies annoyingly having to pay attention to me, something they’d rather not do or be bothered with. They hate life and themselves and each other, coming together because they believed their fantasies worked well, with children even being part of the fantasy. But the trouble was children demand attention pulling one out of ones fantasy into reality, and a reality my parents didn’t want to live and have to face and deal with. So they brutalised my self- and feeling-expression, making me stop it, stop coming out and making them have to pay attention to them, stopping me being personal with them, making me go off into my own fantasies so I could live in their fantasy world. But none of it makes me feel good. And so in the end, religions based on fantasy aren’t going to make anyone feel good either.
So it’s about daily feeling-life and how to live with those feelings in relationship to the Truth and with our Mother and Father.
From The Urantia Book: 195:9.8 (2083.4) The world needs more firsthand religion. Even Christianity — the best of the religions of the twentieth century — is not only a religion about Jesus, but it is so largely one which men experience secondhand. They take their religion wholly as handed down by their accepted religious teachers. What an awakening the world would experience if it could only see Jesus as he really lived on earth and know, firsthand, his life-giving teachings! Descriptive words of things beautiful cannot thrill like the sight thereof, neither can creedal words inspire men’s souls like the experience of knowing the presence of God. But expectant faith will ever keep the hope-door of man’s soul open for the entrance of the eternal spiritual realities of the divine values of the worlds beyond.
And DLS provides the way to live a ‘firsthand religion’. We live true to our feelings and true to the truth that comes as a result of that, and that is our religion, as we’re doing that trying to become more in tune with our soul and also with our Mother and Father. We want to feel loved by Them as we feel loved by each other as we feel our own self-love. And They have given it all to us, it’s all very easy only we’ve been led away from such truth into feeling-denying lives. So it’s bizarre that we’ve created with our minds so many fantastical religions and spiritual systems all based around stopping our true feeling expression, and making us then not have good and happy relationships with ourselves, nature, each other and God, and then telling us this is the right way and you are happy and loving and ain’t life grand.
So those people who look to their feelings and the truth they give rise to, are living as close to themselves and to God as one can. It’s the most personal way to live. It keeps the mind in its right place ensuring feelings lead. And it makes you feel good. As you heal and clear away all that’s stopping this process you do gradually start to feel better within yourself and better in your relationships, you start to feel you’re moving along in a specific direction and that too makes you feel good. But of course you still feel bad whilst all the repressed stuff inside you works its way to the surface, yet still overall you feel much better about everyone because you are first-handedly driving your own spiritual and religious experience and without anyone else telling you how it should be, what you should be doing, where you will go. And the awakening the world would see about how Jesus really lived on earth, means that you will see it in yourself as you live it firsthand, becoming perfect and true as Jesus was. And if enough such truth-inspired people lived together or were present on the world as living examples of people who have freed themselves from the Rebellion and their own pain, then certainly they would be awe-inspiring. And what a joy it would be to see how they express themselves and how they define a relationship and what they get out of, and what they demand of their relationships. And what a thrill it would be see how they relate to themselves, each other, their children, to their ‘pets’ - creatures that can’t look after themselves properly in the natural world so have to be cared for, to all of nature and to the Mother and Father.
195:10.3 (2084.3) Ever bear in mind — God and men need each other. They are mutually necessary to the full and final attainment of eternal personality experience in the divine destiny of universe finality.
195:10.4 (2084.4) “The kingdom of God is within you” was probably the greatest pronouncement Jesus ever made, next to the declaration that his Father is a living and loving spirit.
195:10.16 (2086.2) The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.
195:9.4 (2082.9) Religion does need new leaders, spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings. If Christianity persists in neglecting its spiritual mission while it continues to busy itself with social and material problems, the spiritual renaissance must await the coming of these new teachers of Jesus’ religion who will be exclusively devoted to the spiritual regeneration of men. And then will these spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganization of the world.
And these new leaders will conceivable be people living DLS. They might not even know they are living it, but the principles will be the same. And invariably there will be people who are ‘new leaders’, new spiritual leaders, people who will be living examples of the New Way, because other people will need to see that it can be done, and will feel encouraged to ‘follow their lead’. But of course also not everyone will want to be a ‘leader’ but there are also of course all sorts of ways to lead, one doesn’t have to be out there affecting the masses. And it will be those people who quietly, or perhaps not so quietly as they freely express all their feelings, go about their daily lives striving to be true who will be the inexorable movement of truth pushing its way up out of the swamp of untruth.
If it isn’t already obvious, I am ‘pitching’ DLS to appeal to those so-called New Leaders. Anyone who takes it on seriously and really applies themselves to their Feeling Healing will of course be leading themselves off down a complete new track in life, and one that will have ramifications in the lives of others. I don’t know how to speak to the majority, I can’t do that yet, if that is something I am to be able to do, I can’t even freely and truly express myself to Marion. So my work is still probably too technical, yet I hope those people who can grasp the essence and underlying meaning of what it’s about will be able to apply such things to their lives and do their healing.
Desire said I have set the bar high and few people will be able to come up to that level even to consider what I am saying, and I used to worry about that, concerned that I was distancing myself too far from the average person who I was writing for and hopefully offering some help. But now having worked through those limitations which were about my going off to please myself and leaving my brother and sister and mum and dad, no longer being there to play my role in their life drama, I am slowly turning my back on them and feel intent to raise the bar as high as I can, all in response to my feelings. It is no longer of my concern as to whether people will be able to get over it or not, I can’t concern myself with everyone else always putting them first like mum and dad made me do. I want to raise my own bar for myself all the way to complete my healing, and so will write expressing those levels.
I'd like to see DLS growing like a spiritual library, in which people can come and spend time looking around at all the different aspects of it. And with the input from you Sam and Wes the library is expanding, and perhaps one day it will be the library of something like a spiritual university into which people can come and see that there is an alternative way of living to the unloving way we’ve all been inducted into. And perhaps those people in turn will want to add to and contribute their feeling-expression. And that from this spiritual university will come the “spiritual renaissance” with such “spirit-born souls quickly supply the leadership and inspiration requisite for the social, moral, economic, and political reorganisation of the world.”
And so we wait: P.1863 - §13 Although Jesus referred one phase of the kingdom to the future and did, on numerous occasions, intimate that such an event might appear as a part of a world crisis; and though he did likewise most certainly, on several occasions, definitely promise sometime to return to Urantia, it should be recorded that he never positively linked these two ideas together. He promised a new revelation of the kingdom on earth and at some future time; he also promised sometime to come back to this world in person; but he did not say that these two events were synonymous. From all we know these promises may, or may not, refer to the same event.
This suggesting that there will be a world crisis that will be the catalyst for great change, which has to come so as to wrestle the control from the mind spirits and elite on Earth opening up new avenues of thought and creative expression. And Jesus promised a new revelation of the Kingdom on Earth, which he began in person with James Padgett, and then added to with The Urantia Book, and following on with all he and Mary have told me. So really there is no need for him to come back now in person, for the truth and information is now readily available for those people who do want to heal themselves and be as he and Mary are. Which then fits in with this next paragraph:
P.1919 - §2 We most positively believe that Michael will again come in person to Urantia, but we have not the slightest idea as to when or in what manner he may choose to come. Will his second advent on earth be timed to occur in connection with the terminal judgment of this present age, either with or without the associated appearance of a Magisterial Son? Will he come in connection with the termination of some subsequent Urantian (Earth) age? Will he come unannounced and as an isolated event? We do not know. Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.
All of which suggests Jesus (and Mary) are not going to come again for a very long time, because if he (they) have to come in their full glory and for all spiritual eyes to see, those eyes will be people who’ve finished their healing and are living a Celestial level of truth. Because if he comes in his full light and one is not of that level of truth, then they will not see the light, being ‘blinded’ by its brightness, so will reject it, turn away, fall on the ground and not see or listen to the words Jesus and Mary will speak. So when they come and for them to be fully welcomed and understood, humanity will have to be a in very different condition to what it’s in now, with the majority, if not even the whole of humanity, being Celestial and so having healed itself of all rebellion - which is in keeping with what they’ve told me about their coming through the Morontia Temple which can only descend to Earth when humanity has completed its healing. So as The Urantia Book says, “then must his advent be long deferred”, as conceivably it’s going to take humanity a long time to heal itself.
And the fact that so many people are caught up with Jesus coming back now so as to confirm their belief and faith and to make their religion be the superior one, means a lot of disappointment is to come and hopefully some deeper questioning of themselves, their beliefs and their false religion. But it also suggests that we are on the brink of massive change, that which we can all sense, and that which is being whipped up into a frenzy by people who want Revelation and all the other religious prophecies to happen. So as The Urantia Book says, it is indeed an incredible time to be on Earth, and within the maelstrom, perhaps even within the eye of the storm, is being put Divine Love Spirituality.
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Post by wesley on Oct 26, 2015 23:33:21 GMT 10
It took 2 to start the Rebellion and 2 to end it. Now what's next. The Avonal tribe of four. Marion, James, Samantha and here I come catching up. And the ones out there silently reading and understanding what's going on with there Souls. Nothing compares to DLS not one iota. I'm a living example of 24 hours of healing while sleeping, working and playing. Never I'm I caught up in what religion ever taught. It could never be my saving grace. And I live through it early denouncing it at the age of 8 when I told my mom "I don't want to go to church anymore". The stage is set. Are we predestined to avoid the great OZ (mind) that played horrible tricks on us with lie after lie and then say believe and you'll be saved. NO. I spoke and said I rather take my punishment but I AM What I Am and can't be moved. They scoffed at me and said God will strike me down. Wow really. That is what you get from religion. Obey or your finished to hell fire. Yet still I'm not moved. There is something left by Jesus and Mary M upon leaving the earth. Something never seen before that maybe someone would seek if they understood the mission of them BOTH. And Yes. Don't listen to the very family you grew up in. Seek with your heart and Feelings and never stray even though the pain and suffering will be great. We are the Avonals or better yet preparing the way. How else could a man like me hold no belief what's so ever in any religion and still avoid being struck down from an Awesome God. She is awesome because she let me speak and be strong enough to take the pain and tears I suffered. Me being the evil one in the family. The stage is set and now the candle is lit showing the NEW way. And all my bad Feelings become one with me and with the Mother and the Father. I Am here. I Am healing. I need no intellect. I need no belief system. I need no parents. I need no savior. And I express, accept and long for the Truth. Avonals
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Post by James on Oct 27, 2015 21:23:45 GMT 10
I like that Wes. And especially: "The stage is set and now the candle is lit showing the NEW way.", as that's how I feel too. Yes, just a little flickering gentle light within the darkness. That's how I feel inside myself, I've got a little light in there that's slowly getting brighter getting rid of the murk.
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Post by James on Mar 5, 2016 16:33:30 GMT 10
I’ve been rather preoccupied of late with more Avonal stuff. I want to know if all I’ve said about it is true. I want to know if all I say about the spiritual stuff is true. I know the healing is true as I’m living that, showing myself every day that it is, but with all the other intellectual stuff about the Avonal Pair and the end of Mary’s and Jesus’ age - what about all of that?
And the latest about the Avonal’s I’ve been discussing with Marion, and which she presented me with the other day, she believing it’s all just my own fantasy trying to make myself feel better, is what if all of us die having completed our healing or not, and no one takes on the ‘message’ of the truth about the healing and so it just dies with us. And then further, what if the message does continue on yet people just take it and pervert it, making it into all sorts of weird controlling healing things like how AJ Miller and Mary Luck are currently doing with their ‘emotional clearing’ and the Divine Love. So what if the truth about the healing - using feelings to uncover ones truth, is used against the truth of the actual personal and their soul, thereby sending humanity off down yet more paths of truth-denial, just as we’ve been doing with Mary and Jesus’ truth these past two thousand years. And so the Avonals, if they do exist and are here or do come, would have to say like Jesus did, we will come again, so some time way down the track they’d have to find a person like James Padgett and channel through the truths about the healing. This all being contrary to what Mary and Jesus have told me, and what I believe, and what I’ve said in my writings, that the revealing of the truth of how to heal ourselves of our rebellion and truth-denial IS the turning point of humanity’s descent into darkness and so the final end of the Rebellion and Default, and not just another chapter in the ages long saga of humanity living against itself.
And that’s not to say of course that it might be the beginning of the end, and that along with people doing their healing correctly, other people might take bits and pieces of it and stuff it all up, ending up doing what might be called ‘false-healing’ using their feelings and mind control, and so I have been allowing myself to be open to all possibilities and how I feel about them, those feelings I’ve been expressing to Marion.
And really as I’ve been feeling more of late, I don’t know, and I don’t care, I have no idea what the Mother and Father have in mind. And as They’ve not told me one way or the other, so I will just carry on doing what I feel and waiting until I do know, or die or whatever else might happen. And what does it matter anyway, I am only presenting my take on things, which might not be right, and who cares, it’s not as if I’m telling everyone they must do this or else, so people can choose to do whatever they like with it, which is of course how everything should be. And if humanity is to go off down yet another side track for the next 1000 years or more, that’s not for me to worry about, for it’s not as if I have any say in it.
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Post by James on Jun 19, 2016 19:27:58 GMT 10
Lately I’ve been having more thoughts about the Spirit of Truth, the Avonals, the Urantia Book and Padgett Messages, which I want to write about. In part they have come about from this quote in The Urantia Book:
170:5.19 (1866.2) Sooner or later another and greater John the Baptist is due to arise proclaiming “the kingdom of God is at hand” — meaning a return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus, who proclaimed that the kingdom is the will of his heavenly Father dominant and transcendent in the heart of the believer — and doing all this without in any way referring either to the visible church on earth or to the anticipated second coming of Christ. There must come a revival of the actual teachings of Jesus, such a restatement as will undo the work of his early followers who went about to create a sociophilosophical system of belief regarding the fact of Michael’s sojourn on earth.
So, who is this other John the Baptist and what do they mean? This is what I think.
As we know John heralded Jesus. John was something of the forerunner to Jesus, helping people get accustomed to the idea that Jesus was coming. And one wonders, had John not been there to introduce Jesus as such, would Jesus have been able to move as easily into being accepted. Or, was it perhaps necessary to have a mortal involved right from the beginning, thereby ensuring the personal connection right the way from the beginning between a son of man (John) and the Son of God (Jesus). Either way it gives one the feeling that Jesus being so far advanced and ahead of the ordinary person, needed to be accepted and perhaps introduced by someone first. Because Jesus being who he was surely didn’t need John as such. So why was there a John the Baptist and does that condition still apply today?
And what I mean by that is, Jesus being perfect is far removed from we who are imperfect, there’s a huge gulf to cross between he and us. And perhaps if he were to suddenly return today he’d actually alienate too many people who’d not be able to cope with him, but with someone preparing the way so to speak, would that soften the blow of his sudden appearance? However I’m not suggesting that this is what is going to happen, another reenactment of what happened all those years ago, for I don’t think Jesus is going to return as the Christians want him to, he telling us in the PM that the messages are his Second Coming of Truth. As I’ve written elsewhere, I think Jesus and Mary will return but through the Morontia Temple way, way in the future and on one of their routine planetary visits, so when humanity has healed itself completely and is perfect, thereby being able to fully embrace Mary and Jesus’ perfection personally through their visitation.
What I do think TUB is referring to in this quote is in fact the coming of the Avonal (pair), in that they are really the real forerunners to Jesus and Mary. And on an ordinary world they would be the ones enlightening the humanity to the existence of the Creator Pair. So the Avonals will introduce, as I’ve said, the way humanity can heal itself of its rebellion against Jesus and Mary, thereby providing the bridge to them. They don’t have to tell us about Mary and Jesus other than setting the record straight about them being soulmates and making sure people understand the full significance of Mary Magdalene and why she was so heavily denied, but they do have reveal the way people can become perfect like Mary and Jesus are - so they can be truly followed. The UB says “Sooner or later another and greater John the Baptist is due to arise”, by which how it puts it I think means really sooner rather than later, for if it was later they’d have surely put it another way; and the another and greater means someone who is like John but not, is greater, so someone who is similar in that the Avonal (they) will be evil like John having been born into the wrongness taking it all on, but greater in that he (they) will be able to heal themselves of their wrongness, thereby revealing the way humanity can finally heal itself of its rebellion and default against the Truth.
And it says: “and doing all this without in any way referring either to the visible church on earth or to the anticipated second coming of Christ”, which is interesting because that’s exactly how I see the Avonals as being. They will not be interested in the Church, not in any of the religions or spiritual systems knowing they are all wrong and of the very evil and rebellion they have come to heal. They will not want to interfere with these structures understanding that such people remain within them because they want to, as they are giving them what they need. And they also won’t be interested in the second coming of Christ as it’s hoped is to happen according to the Bible, because it’s all nonsense about Jesus descending out of the clouds to take away the chosen ones to the Promise Land or whatever it is they are hoping for. They will understand, as we do, that Jesus has come again through the PM, and that there’d be nothing further to be gained concerning the Truth should he actually reappear at the end or any time through his and Mary’s age. If they did suddenly appear neither of them could shed any more light on our Healing than they already have, as it’s not for them to do so; and as they see everyone as they same in soul-worth, we all being children of our Heavenly Parents, so they are not going to praise or single out anyone just because they ‘believe’ in Jesus.
So the Avonals will be focused solely on helping people understand about the Healing and why it’s so important to do and why one has to do it if one wants to end their pain, misery and suffering. And that being ‘saved’ is about saving ourselves, helping people to live free of their rebellion and default, becoming Celestials on Earth should they complete their healing, all of which means they’ll be able to live as Jesus and Mary do; so as TUB says: “meaning a return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus, who proclaimed that the kingdom is the will of his heavenly Father dominant and transcendent in the heart of the believer”. Because as you do your Healing you are looking to live this, to feel it, committing your whole heart and will to it, particularly by including the Divine Love. And that the ‘believer’ goes way beyond believing, into knowing the truth for themselves that they are doing and living God’s will through their feelings, and all with nothing to do with their mind, it all being the truth that they are, all contained within their heart. So with no need for any organised religion or church, no need for any middleman, it all being personally done in their relationship between themselves and their Mother and Father, just as it was with Jesus and his Father as we understand from the various texts.
So TUB sneaks in this something about the future, just as the PM also sneaks in a little mention about the Revealer coming. I don’t have the relevant quote at hand, but it’s only very briefly mentioned in one of the messages, almost in passing, or as: Oh by the way, this Revealer person is coming... sometime...
And so why does humanity need a Revealer and another and greater John the Baptist, when surely from all we’re told by the Church, and even in TUB and the PM, we have Jesus, he’s the Master and Saviour, and we have his Spirit of Truth and also the Holy Spirit bringing the Divine Love into our heart and soul, so isn’t that all we need? And so if it is, why the brief by-the-by mention of this other ‘special’ person to come?
And of course there will be other Avonals coming to change the ages, but if Jesus (and Mary) were all we needed, then they will not reveal anything new only expand upon what Jesus and Mary have said, and would hardly be considered a Revealer, for a revealer suggests something new is surely to be revealed, and what could that possibly be when Jesus is supposed to have said it all - could it possibly be anything to do with the Healing?
The part about the Spirit of Truth that has come to my mind lately is that looking at the people who are content working with the PM alone, and those who stick to TUB, and Christians, and those people in other religions, none of them to my mind are actually growing in truth like they believe they are. As I’ve said before, even though some of them might be receiving some Divine Love, none of them so far as what I can see are doing their Healing. Sure little bits of self-investigation through their feelings and with their mind might occur, and some people do manage to heal part of their childhood traumas, leading to a small amount of truth, but none of them from what I’ve read are talking about all the incredible truth that’s coming to light about themselves, their lives, the world, nature, the spirits, spirit life, Mary and Jesus, our Mother and Father, as comes to you when you do actually do your Healing. So I’ve been wondering, if Jesus’ Spirit of Truth is so active and prevalent in these people’s lives, as some of them claim, well it’s acting a bit slowly, or shoddily, for something is not quite right, surely they’d be racing along with it, as so many of them say they are sincerely wanting the Truth, and do believe they are getting it. They say they believe in Jesus, love Jesus, want to be as he is and with him, are even expecting him to come at any moment to pat them on their backs for all the good work they’ve done taking them off with him to live happily everafter. But when you look at it and how they are living NOT doing their Healing, I’ve come to conclude that they are not progressing, they are going nowhere fast, and mostly they are just moving on in their minds wrongness furthering their evilness.
One of the people on one of the TUB forums said that because of the action of the Spirit of Truth within her she has been able to circumvent her wrongness (these being my words), that that Spirit of Truth has removed all that’s wrong from her (or is removing it), is removing all her rebellion against the truth, so her rebellion against Jesus (there’s no mention or inclusion of Mary), thereby making her believe she is true. So what she interprets TUB as saying how the Spirit of Truth is helping her, sounds very similar to what the Divine Love people believe the Divine Love does - erasing all their wrongness, sins and errors. So here we have two different ways people are ending their evilness, having it all mysteriously taken from them, and with their having not to worry about any of it, to just concentrate on being loving and helping others and all your yuk and pain and error leaves you. So without any truth or understanding about it; nothing about why you are evil, why God incarnated you into rebellion and default, how you were inducted into it by your parents, how you became of it growing up, and how you can heal yourself of it. Nothing, not a mention about feelings and looking to them for their truth; nothing about going back into yourself understanding all the complicated psychology that comprises your wrongness and mind control of your feelings, nothing about Childhood Repression, nothing about dealing with the unloving parts of your relationship with your parents and carers that set all the negative patterns for your adult life, nothing really about dealing with and accepting your bad feelings, just more denying them, and denying them in the easiest and greatest way possibly - by so-called engaging the Spirit of Truth or longing for the Divine Love, or both. But as we know, it doesn’t happen that way, and these people are showing us that. As are the spirits. A man who helped set up a Divine Love church, helped introduce many people to the Divine Love and PM, was said to be a loving and caring person, and who possibly might have believed he’d been making good progress, said through a contemporary channel that when he died he started living on the third mansion world, so had hardly progressed at all, which was a surprise to some of his contemporaries who knew of him when he was alive on Earth, they assuming he must have been further along than the third world, as they no doubt believe they too should be further along because of all the years of hard work they’d done on themselves and longing for the Divine Love. And why he’d hardly progressed was because he’d not done his Healing!
So my conclusion is these people who believe they are embracing Jesus’ Spirit of Truth are not, or if they are, are doing so only in a very minor way. Which is in keeping with what I’ve thought, that Jesus’ Spirit of Truth is really there waiting for us WHEN we’re healed - but we HAVE TO DO OUR HEALING FIRST. Or, it (and Mary’s Spirit of Truth) will help us AS WE DO our Healing. And I think the Christians are testament to the fact that with so many people over all these years believing so strongly in Jesus and so supposedly embracing his Spirit of Truth - with his Spirit of Truth being completely anti-Church and ALL about living with the Father WITHOUT any middleman or external structure, for them to be so bound up in such wrongness shows that they aren’t connecting with him and his Spirit of Truth, because if they were then they’d not want to have anything to do with the Church - they be rejecting it and getting as far away from it as possible knowing it was untrue. The Christian faith as it is and Jesus and his Spirit of Truth are diametrically opposed. As we know, the Church does all it can to reject the real Jesus, making up a fantasy pretend one, attributing all sorts of rubbish to him and what he said when on Earth, none of it helping the person grow in truth and connect with the real Jesus and his Spirit of Truth, let alone including Mary M.
So I can see it will be the same for the UB and PM people, years will go by, possibly hundreds, even thousands of years, and just like the Christians, they will continue to delude themselves they have embraced Jesus and so are being attended to by his Spirit of Truth, when the sad truth is, they are still doing all they can do deny him and his Spirit of Truth. They say they want the Truth but they are doing all they can to deny it by sticking to their rebellious anti-truth beliefs. On the surface and in their minds they might believe and even feel they are wanting to be true, are making progress, are doing all that Jesus says they should do, so are following him and longing for the Divine Love as well, but deeper within them they are still completely bound up in the Rebellion and Default, which we all are, until we’ve completely Healed ourselves. So until you become of Celestial truth (are fully Healed) you are still rebelling and denying by default in some way: the Truth, Jesus and Mary, the Mother and Father, and the truth of your own soul. So their Spirits of Truth and the Divine Love will be limited in the amount of help and transformation they can give, such help and soul-transformation increasing as you progress in your Healing.
So once again it’s the Avonals Spirits of Truth that are going to provide the support and way for humanity to heal its wrongness. And now I understand that NO ONE within Mary and Jesus’ age could have done their Healing, it has been impossible. So all those billions of people who’ve believed they’ve been making progress or have even healed themselves of their wrongness have at best done a fraction of their Healing, but mostly simply progressed in their minds control over themselves. And only now with Mary and Jesus helping to reveal the truths about our Healing can we actually do it. It’s history in the making folks, so now we can get on with it, we thankfully don’t have to wait until we’re in spirit like everyone else has had to do through Mary and Jesus’ age.
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Post by James on Jun 20, 2016 21:23:41 GMT 10
Next round on The Urantia Book forumFollowing on from this post about the Spirit of Truth and Avonals, I’ve posting also more about it on one of the Urantia Book forums. I didn’t think I’d be going back there, for fear of interfering with them, and I didn’t think it was my place to confront them or stir them up even though it is a public forum. And then after speaking about all these fears which came down to Gran saying I wasn’t to interfere or disturb anyone - meaning, herself, so I’ve believed that unless specifically invited and even then by only sticking to direct instructions, I was not to get involved (in life), particularly if - as she said would happen - I’d upset everyone and make them feel bad - which is mum. So for god’s sake and at all costs - DON’T UPSET THAT MOTHER OF YOURS. Nor for that matter, as I now understand, also - DON’T UPSET THAT GRANDMOTHER OF YOURS. They were both as bad as each other just in different ways - and how could they be anything else? So with Marion’s as usual sane insight, I felt stuff it, I do want to get involved, I’m sick of standing back for fear of upsetting anyone, I want to have my say and they can only tell me to get stuffed, to go away, tell me I’m full of shit, reject and ban me, which is nothing like what mum used to do. So here’s the link for the relevant Urantia Book forum page. I'm posting as Zuimon. urantia-association.org/forums/topic/one-like-john-the-baptist/I’m not going to post any replies here unless they are very relevant, only the beginning post of the thread by Julian, and then my posts. Julian:My dear friends and fellow readers,I am interested in your thoughts about the following passage which has for a long time puzzled and intrigued me:Sooner or later another and greater John the Baptist is due to arise proclaiming “the kingdom of God is at hand”–meaning a return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus, who proclaimed that the kingdom is the will of his heavenly Father dominant and transcendent in the heart of the believer–and doing all this without in any way referring either to the visible church on earth or to the anticipated second coming of Christ. P.1866:2I have often wondered whether this is referring to an individual human who, like John the Baptist, would presage the coming of the kingdom, or in it’s anti-typical sense, a “return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus”…..or does it refer to a composite class of humans doing this work collectively?Your thoughts and opinions on this would be much appreciated!Love to all!JulianMe: Hello everyone, things have been changing within me of late, and having thought I’d not return to the forums, here I am. I have been reading them over the past months and was captured by this post of Julian’s and want to share my thoughts and opinions. And of course I want to hear your replies. I too wondered what was the book hinting at in this paragraph, and it’s interesting because the only other spirit-induced material I look at (other than my own) is the Padgett Messages, which no doubt some of you have heard about, and which also contains one brief, as in passing, reference to a future ‘Revealer’. So here we have the only two decent and relatively recent (the PM’s being received by James Padgett early last century) communications from higher spirits both saying that humanity is to expect a ‘Revealer’ and ‘another and greater John the Baptist’. And I wondered, if, as so many people believe, Jesus said it all, and more than enough for us to follow him and heal ourselves of all our problems, then why would be need another person to come and reveal anything more to us - for, what could there possibly be to reveal? And so with the smatterings of truth in the Bible, with all TUB says, and then with Jesus himself coming with the help of Celestial spirits telling us what was left out of the Bible, filling in the gaps about how important the Divine Love is and other interesting things in the Padgett Messages, he even saying in them that they are his Second Coming, with all of that to help us, what more could this Revealer person possibly reveal - and why would we need it? So if one does accept this ‘special’ person is to come, and possibly even soon to come, then one surely has to accept that possibly all we need to help us ascend to Paradise has NOT actually yet been revealed, and that there is possibly another instalment awaiting us; and that possibly if so, then that instalment is very important; and even further: that without it, we actually CAN’T fully embrace our ascension as so many people believe they are doing. Because, not to labour the point, if we could from all the resources available to us, then why the need for this revealer and greater John the Baptist person? And if you accept this train of thought, then you start going down a tunnel into what might turn into the Pandora’s Box of annoying problems that most people refuse to face. However, I like facing these challenges and so want to push on and see what you reckon about such things. So let’s now think about this Revealer, what sort of person might he be as Julian, and I guess others, would like to know? And what I think he will be is an Avonal Son - no surprise there, however one on a full bestowal. And I know what TUB says about this, however it also says, by nicely leaving the door open, that Jesus has the say as to what happens on our world, so anything can happen. So why do I think we should be expecting and Avonal bestowal? And I will explain, however it will no doubt confront a lot of your beliefs and feelings about TUB, but still I’d like to see what you think about it. And as there is a lot to it, I will leave it here for my first return post, adding more later. Affectionately - Zuimon. Like you Bonita, I have thought that it is possibly an ordinary mortal like John that might be able to do as you say, however now I don’t think that is possible because there is not all the information readily available yet for such a person to bring about the revival of the actual teachings of Jesus, hence the need for someone else to reveal that missing information. Possibly once all the truth is available, then might come such a mortal who can ignite the imagination and hearts of people to truly long for the truth and follow Jesus by first healing themselves of their rebellion and default, but until all that information is available, I see there can only be more of the same old, same old. And I’m sorry, but I don’t think TUB is the key. I don’t think TUB reveals or presents all Jesus said and all he is for someone to use to make such a revival, and I also don’t think it’s TUB’s job to do that. For me TUB and the Padgett Messages are to be united, not withstanding their various discrepancies. They both contain vital information for us. And it’s intriguing that the PM preceded TUB and yet TUB makes no mention of them, when the PM are the truest expression of Jesus’ Spirit of Truth that we have on the earth; TUB isn’t, TUB is just a lot of mind information pooled together for us to use in conjunction with the PM, and then with what this future revealer is to reveal. So I don’t see TUB as being the be-all and end-all, it’s just one piece of the puzzle we’ve been presented with at this time in our evolution. And if you are truly wanting to follow Jesus, and can’t stomach the PM, then you are not embracing his Spirit of Truth irrespective of what you believe. If you reject the Jesus that spoke to James Padgett in the PM, then you are rejecting Jesus’ Spirit of Truth, choosing to relate to a false or fantasy Jesus you’ve made up in your own mind, just like the Christians do. The PM are the benchmark so to speak, the starting point, from which we are then to work with and integrate TUB, all of which then sets us up ready to receive that which the Revealer has to say, that being the missing link, or missing part of the puzzle. And if you believe you have all you need, then so far as I’m concerned (and yes, I might be wrong) you are sadly deluding yourself and doing yourself a severe disservice. If you are sincerely wanting to embrace Jesus’ Spirit of Truth, then you will need to begin with the Padgett Messages, but not limit yourself to them, as too many people are inclined to do. And likewise, if you are only adhering to TUB, then you will severely restrict your growth to merely advancing your mind and limiting your soul development. So why a full Avonal bestowal? Jesus came retaining his perfection, and this is very important to remember. He didn’t submit to the Rebellion and Default by taking it on, by becoming it, he lived within it, but never experienced it personally first hand. He doesn’t know from personal experience what it feels like to feel utterly unloved, unwanted, rejected, alone and devoid of any comfort from truth. He doesn’t know what it feels like to live denying yourself, nature, him and the Father. He doesn’t know what it feels like to wake up realising you are false, untrue and full of your own self-importance, devoid of any humility. And he couldn’t know, he couldn’t go that way, because had he become of the Rebellion and Default, being the Creator Son he’d have brought the whole of Nebadon into rebellion, which I’m sure he didn’t want to do. And this too is very important to remember because we are a long way from Jesus, there is a vast gulf between his perfection and our imperfection. And a such a gulf that a few words in a book can’t bridge. And so you’d then naturally think, yes, but he has liberated his Spirit of Truth and we can use that to heal ourselves of our wrongness - but can we? Bonita said as much recently in a post, but I beg to differ as much as I’d like it to be true. The Spirit of Truth, just like in the PM and the partaking of the Divine Love, is simply not enough to remove your sins and errors. We have to do our Healing. And you see Bonita, it’s because Jesus’ Spirit of Truth, DOES NOT contain within it the necessary help we need to actually heal ourselves of our rebellion and default, because Jesus DIDN’T TAKE ON THE REBELLION AND DEFAULT, he didn’t personally become evil and sinful and untrue; and so because he didn’t become those bad things, so he didn’t need to heal himself of them; and because he didn’t heal himself of such wrongness, HOW TO HEAL THEM IS NOT CONTAINED WITHIN HIS SPIRIT OF TRUTH. (I’m capitalising because this is fundamental to understand, and it’s not said in either TUB or the PM.) So, contrary to what many people believe and think is happening to them, we can’t use Jesus’ Spirit of Truth to heal ourselves of our rebellion and default, because the truth of how to do it is not contained within it, so it doesn’t connect with us where we really need it to. It can connect with us to a limited degree, as people do feel Jesus is the One, and want to be as He is - perfect; and we want to follow him and ascend through Nebadon to Paradise, but still that’s all very well, but HE CAN’T ACTUALLY HELP US WITH OUR HEALING. And so much so, that it’s not even his place or right to help us. And going even further: he doesn’t actually want to help us in a hands on way, because if he did then he’d be interfering with our rebellion and default, and he like the Father doesn’t interfere. He had every chance to interfere all he liked when he was on earth, but he didn’t, he didn’t even want to heal anyone, and he sure didn’t stop the rotten world and bring down all the very bad power-people, he didn’t even prevent himself being nailed to the cross! He simply terminated the Rebellion on the spirit level, and left us to it. And that was all he could do because he wasn’t like us, he didn’t take on the rottenness losing himself to the Evil Ones, and this a lot of people find very had to understand. So as much as we love Jesus and we want nothing more than for Jesus to help us and save us and get us out of the yuk state we’re in, really he is powerless to do it; or rather, chooses to remain that way because he does have all power. So why does he; Why doesn’t he or the Father end the horror, god it’s been going for eons now, and even with Jesus’ coming it didn’t end - SO WHY NOT? And why did they even allow us to make it even worse for ourselves by creating something as disgusting and abhorrent as the Christian religion. Why don’t they help us? Why, if Jesus’ Spirit of Truth is so readily available and contains the truth to fully heal ourselves, haven’t many people, who like Christians purport to love Jesus so much and want to do God’s will, healed themselves? Why do they still stay fully entrenched within such soul-destroying systems of belief about a fantasy Jesus, when Jesus himself, and so too his Spirit of Truth, was/is completely against the creation of such a monster. He despised and rejected the very controlling Jewish way of believing during his time on earth, telling us to instead go directly to God and that there is no need for a middleman or any such restricting, controlling, life-dominating church, and yet so many people bind themselves up in it even to die for such erroneous beliefs - so where is the Spirit of Truth for all these self-professed Jesus lovers? He said as TUB says in this quote that the kingdom of Heaven is in your heart, it’s where your truth is, it is not out there in some horrible religious institution - so where is Jesus’ helping Spirit of Truth in the lives of these people? Surely many more people who do genuinely want to be true, follow him and embrace his Spirit of Truth, would end up running a mile from the Church, and the Church wouldn’t have the power it currently has if his Spirit of Truth was all we needed. So again I am saying that Jesus’ Spirit of Truth can’t actually reach us to the degree we need from it so as to fully heal ourselves of our rebellion and truth, and so we need another Spirit of Truth to help us do the job - hence the need for an Avonal bestowal. For do you see, that Avonal would be able to fully submit to the Rebellion and Default, taking it all on, losing himself to it by becoming untrue by being conceived into it, becoming fully sinful and evil - imperfect, just like we all are; and then at some point in his life realise that how he was living wasn’t actually making him feel very good, and so would seek the truth of his negative, unloving, anti-truth, rebellious state of mind and will, and set about healing himself of all his wrongness. And then once fully healed, upon his death would liberate his Spirit to Truth to work in conjunction with, or ‘just under’, Jesus’ Spirit of Truth, containing within it ALL the truth we need to help us fully heal ourselves, all because of the personal life experience of that Avonal. And that the Avonal would then bridge the vast gulf separating us and Jesus. He literally being ‘the way to Jesus’, and if we ‘followed him’, he’d then lead us to Jesus, just as all the other bestowal Avonals do on all the other worlds. Remembering that the Avonals are created to deal with specific worlds, and in particular worlds that have gone into rebellion, and not the whole local universe like Jesus does. The Avonal is able to go into the heart of any rebellion and default by becoming of them, and wake up to see the untruth of it all, then heal himself of it, thereby providing the way for humanity to heal themselves of their rebellion and any other problems like a default. The Avonals can ‘lose’ themselves and become imperfect and it’s not going to affect the whole of Nebadon. Jesus terminated the Rebellion in Nebadon by dealing with the major spirit Evil Ones, that was his domain and area of jurisdiction, expertise and right; whereas it’s for an Avonal to effectively terminate the Rebellion, and more importantly in our case, the Default, on earth, all being done in the physical through his personal healing of it within himself, all so we don’t have to wait until we die before we can fully do our healing as many of the spirits in the Padgett Messages have done. So, does that make any sense? Sooner or later another and greater John the Baptist is due to arise proclaiming “the kingdom of God is at hand”–meaning a return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus, who proclaimed that the kingdom is the will of his heavenly Father dominant and transcendent in the heart of the believer–and doing all this without in any way referring either to the visible church on earth or to the anticipated second coming of Christ. P.1866:2 So the “another and greater John the Baptist” would be the bestowal Avonal Son. He would effectively be heralding Jesus anew; and by revealing the truth of how we can actually fully heal our rebellion and default, would ‘prepare’ us for Jesus’ Spirit of Truth. So effectively he’d be the forerunner to Jesus. And by revealing the truth of how to heal our evilness, he’d be effectively showing us how we can “return to the high spiritual concept of Jesus, who proclaimed that the kingdom is the will of his heavenly Father dominant and transcendent in the heart of the believer”, and would do this “without in any way referring either to the visible church on earth” or in the mind mansion worlds where the Christian faiths are all alive and kicking. And he wouldn’t concern himself with the Churches or any other religion or spiritual system of belief because he’d understand that they are all still outworking the Rebellion and Default, that everyone within them is to be allowed to remain as they choose, for like Jesus and the Father he’s not going to interfere with or disturb them. He will simply deal only with those people who are sincere truth seekers and who want to do all they can to completely heal themselves of their untrue and false lives. And he also won’t refer to in any way “the anticipated second coming of Christ” as the Christians want to believe, because he’d know this was nonsense as Jesus is seemingly not going to come down out of the clouds vanquishing all enemies whilst gathering up the chosen flock and whisking them off to the Promised Land. That ain’t on, that’s all part of the fantasy worship of a false Jesus, particularly as Jesus himself said in the Padgett Messages that those messages to James Padgett were, and so are, his Second Coming. I think that if Jesus is going to ever come again in person to earth, then he will come way in the future and through the Morontia Temple whilst on one of his regular world visits. Because by them humanity will have completely healed itself of the Rebellion and Default and so will be on a level of perfection and so truth so as to be able to readily relate to him and his perfection. I think that if Jesus were to suddenly appear today the very people who are saying he is coming would deny them, would disbelieve it actually is him (just how the Jews denied him), as he’d be anti the Church and anti what most Christians are all about - he wouldn’t ‘talk the talk’ or ‘walk the walk’ and they’d very quickly probably label him the Antichrist or Satan incarnate especially if he performed a few miracles. And I can’t imagine the Avonal getting tied up in all of that - that being if he is due to come now anyway. And is it time for the Avonal bestowal...? I think it is; I think we’re moving through the end of Jesus’ age, and because of the bestowal of the Avonal, will then move into the first of Urantia’s Spiritual Ages, hence the prophesied 1000 years of peace. This being the first leg of humanity’s true healing journey, for people will finally have available the truth of how to fully heal themselves, which up until now has not existed in the world. So for me this quote in TUB is very specific; and why mention these two aspects about what he will not be interested in? And then combined with the PM telling us about the Revealer that is to come, it all looks to what might possibly be a very an enlightening time. That is for those people who do sincerely want to end their rebellious ways.
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Post by samantha9 on Jun 21, 2016 4:34:33 GMT 10
Wow James, I have to say it, you are an amazing writer. What you have wrote is just amazing to me, making it all so much more understandable, I will read it again, I cant express just how wonderful this all is, thank you.
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Post by James on Jun 21, 2016 21:19:43 GMT 10
Thank you Sam. I’m currently working on my replies to Bonita, it’s hard work, I’m pooped now and probably won’t even be able to post anything tonight on their forum, which might make them wonder if I’ve been scared off - ha, ha.
However as I’ve been writing my replies, the biggest thing that’s struck me out of it all is in fact that here I am with you saying this nice things and being fully supportive on my forum and me taking on the likes of Bonita. So, two women, so isn’t that interesting?
It’s so weird that here on our world all we have is men, so many men telling so many people how they should live, how they should conduct themselves through the religions and spiritual systems, and yet really when it comes down to it, the men are idiots and not even in the picture. Really the true battle is hidden on the feminine level as represented by feelings. And so here I am with two women: one doing all she can to become true and heal herself of all her wrongness; and the other in Bonita doing all she can to keep her mind so rigidly fixed and in control, desperately clinging to her untruth, whilst all the while believing she is advancing her soul and doesn’t even need to do any real healing other than just tidy up a few loose ends. The battle between Light and Dark - perhaps? Or just two good examples of the differences - they are at least for me.
And there are no men involved, only token gestures on the UB forum but really no one who can seriously challenge queen Bonita for top spot - so who does really rule the roost? Yes, I find it all so fascinating. And just what have those Evil Ones women spirits been up to all these long dark years?
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Post by samantha9 on Jun 22, 2016 1:53:47 GMT 10
Yes. those Evil spirits still at work with the minds of those advancing through the Urantia Book to keep there stronghold over the Mind. The Urantia book was hard going for me because I couldn't feel it in my soul, it is all very intellectual so I haven't been able to get into it to much, just the bits I look at for help in understanding with my mind, but it doesn't really work for me. I feel the whole book has been written by spirits who know it intellectually but not felt it as truth in their soul, that is how it feels to me. When I compare it with your work with Mary and Jesus the feeling is totally different, it sits with me in my soul, I feel it and can feel about it to understand more and reveal more truth for myself but the Urantia Book does not feel anywhere near the same with me and I cant remember a lot of it, only if I learn it parrot fashion, just like at school. The stuff I loved at school entered my soul and never left, it was truth but the intellectual stuff, I couldn't contain, its the same with the UB, all created by mind spirits for the people that want to advance their minds without the souls advancement of truth and love, keeping up the denial and rebellion. I feel the Evil Ones will be loving these women and helped a lot in the creation of the UB and keep influencing the readers of the UB to carry on, that the UB is the way to progression of the soul. For sure the Women spirits have been busy and worked hard to keep up the influence. I can physically feel the difference between the intellectual, mind of information in the UB and the Soul based truth and love of your work, Divine Love Spirituality with Mary and Jesus, it hits a different place in me that is miles apart.
I always wished I could be intellectually clever as a kid James, I was so envious of the clever ones, why couldn't I be like that instead of a dumb Arty type that didn't really understand anything clever. Like Bonita, when I read some of her stuff it took me straight back there, straight back to feeling dumb, stupid, thick and rejected because of it. I hated my parents for having a thick kid and them paying out for extra home education after school for my brothers and my sister but not me.
I can still feel that pain in me of not understanding intellectual stuff like the UB and wishing I could. But I realise that, after doing much healing about it all, that being clever and intellectual is not where our healing is, we cant heal by understanding the writings of a book and learning it parrot fashion like at school, like how we have been taught. Its only through our feelings that the true education can take place and it is only through our feelings in our soul that we can be educated by the greatest teacher of all, God. A soul to soul education and that is the education I want. So I have begun to take myself away from my pain of not being mindfully clever like Bonita and understanding it all because it is written. I now know how the true education can be obtained and I need nothing in this world to do it, except for my feelings, I don't need to be clever, I just need to feel. So easy a child can show me how to do it, how to feel. It must be very hard to have to learn all the UB intellectually, why put yourself through such work, it all feels very unloving and punishing to have to learn that way when all we have to do is go to our soul, our feelings and follow where they take us and undo all that has been done to us and the greatest thing is, is that we can do it with Gods help, we are not alone. I would not swap that for the most intellectually clever mind in the whole universe. Bonita, You're going the wrong way and one day, when you have gone as far as you can go intellectually, you will have to come back down and begin again from a different place, your feelings, it is going to take you twice as long.
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Post by samantha9 on Jun 22, 2016 21:19:43 GMT 10
But, of course Bonita must follow her own will, just thought I would add that as it sounds like I am saying, in a very arrogant way, Bonita has to do what I feel is the right thing and that would be just like my Dad in his Arrogance.
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Post by James on Jun 22, 2016 21:53:42 GMT 10
No Sam, what you said to Bonita sounded fine, it sure didn’t sound arrogant to me, just what you feel is the truth.
And I can relate to all you’re saying about being intellectually clever, it’s such a horrible thing, and funnily enough in my family no one really cared too much about the clever stuff praising my brother for being more creative and arty. I was the good boy doing the schooling stuff, and have used it - still do a bit, oh the shame to have to admit it - to feel superior and all the rest, and I am attracted to it as in TUB, but luckily not to the extent of worshipping the mind and being so bound up in it.
I had written pages of stuff to take on Bonita with, many of the inconsistencies I see in the book, but suddenly today I realised and felt again that I didn’t need to keep going, that I’m done with it all, and thanks to Bonita I’ve got a clear picture of how people wanting to ‘go the way of the mind’ are, compared to people like yourself who want to ‘go the way of feelings’, the mind mansion worlds verses the feeling healing Divine Love worlds.
In the next few days I’m going to ask Mary or Jesus about TUB again, as in how and why it was created. I feel I’m now happy with the human side of it, how people like Bonita relate to it, but I want to know is if it was completely created by the Caligastias and Daligastias, they making up it all up to fit into their agenda; or, which I lean towards, was it inspired by the higher spirits who wanted to give it to us as something of a helping hand for what was to come as in where we are now, but had to comply or do it through the remaining Evil Ones. So as the book has definitely a look of good stuff, I can’t completely right it off, but it also has some weird and wrong stuff so far as I’m concerned.
I have asked Mary and Jesus and the Mother and Father numerous times about this before, but now I feel more like I really understand what I’m asking, so it will interesting to see if they are more forthcoming this time.
And I thought I should go back and say to Bonita and the others that I’m not going on with it, to thank them again and say I am sorry for having to run away again having stirred them all up, all doing what Gran said would be the right thing to do, but having talked all that over with Marion, na, I’m going to do what I’ve never done before and just disappear and not post anything more. It gives me a thrill be so daring - ha, ha, pathetic I know, that I can finally start to do what I want to do, and today getting in the car I suddenly felt overwhelmed with the bother of it all, so tired, and I thought, I just want to go home, and I don’t want to keep going with Bonita, and I’m not going to do anything - just stop, and so I will. I’m like an engine that has all but ground to a halt because of all the grime and rust and neglect, and ever so slowly the rusty old cogs are beginning to come to life. I reckon at this rate it will take about another hundred - thousand? - years before I feel like I’ll be able to do a days work without feeling like I’m dying half way through, or even about to die just at the thought of it.
So thank you again Sam, every bit of feedback about how you get so much out of it and love it and wouldn’t give it up and understand what it’s all about so well, helps me so much, you’ve no idea, it all goes into giving me more confidence about myself, and true confidence and not all the false bravado I tried to live with during my former life.
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Post by samantha9 on Jun 22, 2016 23:40:37 GMT 10
All great James, I will be very interested to read what Mary and Jesus and Mother and Father have to say about the Urantia Book. I find it so exciting. I find the UB a brilliant Mind of information when I want to find out about anything and then I ask Mother and Father to help me feel about what I have read so I can write about it and all the time I have Mother and Father with me helping me go deeper into my feelings so I can read it with their help, like a parent reading to a child to help her understand the big words. Like when I was reading about how the universe was created and mother and father showed me the Andronova Nebula as I was reading about it in the UB, I was shown visions of the Sun being an offspring of the Andronova nebula and the Earth being an offspring of the Sun and all the other planets being born of the Sun all in accordance to the workings of Mother and Fathers Loving Laws, they created all of this incredible potential, to create our universe and that makes me feel just what potential we have if we also live within the Laws of God, its amazing to think of it, the potential God has given us if we live our lives within the guidance of Gods Laws, there would be no need for man made Law. It is all so huge James what potential we have given to us but goes unaware, we are missing out on something truly incredible that is working with us all ever minute of our lives. All there for us and as we heal our feelings we can begin to feel the true nature of Mother and Fathers love for us.
I have gone way of track, I suddenly get into this really emotional place of amazement of it all and get overwhelmed by it, that it is all real, there are no words for it just feelings. I thank you that your work has opened me up to this and I am now like a child beginning again with my true parents.
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Post by James on Jun 30, 2016 21:19:15 GMT 10
I'm going to continue posting on this thread my thoughts and feelings about TUB. Some of which are specific about the Avonal pair, others being more about TUB in general, which should really be under the TUB thread. And I apologise for the repetition - LOL.
Below are some of my thoughts and conclusions about The Urantia Book having recently visited one of the TUB forums and posted the above post about the coming of the bestowal Avonal. That post brought about numerous responses, which I had intended to refute and further discuss on the forum, but suddenly felt I didn’t need to, my conclusions and what I needed from the experience coming from the initial responses, so I ended my involvement with it.
YEAH! I feel like I’ve cracked TUB. I’m now happy with how I see it. I see, as I’ve said below, that it completely complies with the Rebellion. It is not the Great Book that contains how to personally end the Rebellion - it does not contain the way to Heal oneself. The Rebellion and Default were still going (albeit without the Lucifers and Satans and with the air somewhat let out of the tyres of the Caligastias and Daligastias) at the books inception, so it is part of them, despite what the people of the TUB forum say to the effect that because Jesus ended the Rebellion and liberated his Spirit of Truth so the effects of evil are greatly diminished even to the point of our not needing to heal them. It does not contain the way for us to do our Healing. And it can’t - even as it says - stand in place of what a Descending Pair would do: reveal the truths we need so as to keep evolving, and in our case now, reveal the truths specifically about how to Heal ourselves. Truth revelation is highly personal, and a book is not person to person, face to face, it’s not personal enough. It’s at best a very poor stand-in. So I don’t know what it means by the Fifth Epochal Revelation unless that’s what we’re going into with the turning of the age and it’s merely part of that. As I’ve said, I think the true Fifth Epochal Revelation will be the coming of the Avonal bestowal pair. So TUB doesn’t deviate from the Rebellion. The people who originally received it were completely of the Rebellion and Default and it didn’t challenge or confront them like the truth about the Healing would. It allows someone who is already wrong to keep going that way, even becoming more entrenched in their wrongness. The truth about the Healing CAN ONLY COME TO, AND SO FROM, PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THEIR HEALING, it has to come from within based on ones Healing experiences, like all truth: through ones feelings. That’s the real hands on way of revelation. And I don’t care now if it was created by the Caligastias making it all up to prolong the Rebellion, or if the higher spirits worked with them having to comply with the constrictions and restraints imposed on them by having to keep within the boundaries of the Rebellion and Default, none of that really matters for me now, only having it in the right context for myself does. So either way can use it: to help Heal oneself using ones feelings; or to keep advancing ones mind control, dominating ones feelings by using ones mind. And so just like everything, there is good and right in it and there is bad and wrong and lots of confusion, and it’s all for us to sort out how we want to interpret it. So you are either on one side of the fence or the other. And we’re all on the wrong side, until we begin our Healing.
The Urantia Book doesn’t say it is the way to heal oneself of ones rebellion and default. It says it is a pool of information gathered from humanity’s history together with some other cosmic information to help put ourselves who are in rebellion and default into some sort of context. So as far as I can see, it is to be used with this in mind - that it can help us understand our wrongness, yet doesn’t provide the way for us to heal it. Or it can be used to add to our wrongness.
From my visiting one of the TUB forums the main thing about the book that shows how it is of and even supports the Rebellion (that it is a creation within the Rebellion), is its notion about the soul. My understanding of the Rebellion is that it’s about spirits and people taking matters into their own hands and going against the Divine Plan already outlined and being brought into being by our Mother and Father through our souls. It is about denying Them, They who are primarily Soul. And using the mind to separate oneself from ones true soul-feelings, going off self-absorbed in ones own mind by pretending you know the way, with your mind (who is yourself) being the king or queen of all - even being god. So any worship of the Mind as God, is what the Rebellion is all about, which TUB helps us to see. And to do our healing we have to go the other way, but NOT by using our mind, but by submitting to our feelings, expressing them and longing for their truth. This undermining the control our mind has over us and so helping us to extract ourselves from the Rebellion and Default, this being our Healing. (As you may have noticed, I am now just writing the word Healing with a capital ‘H’ so as to give it the distinction of being a real and important thing and not just generic healing; and understanding it is our will and soul-healing as I’ve talked about, it being our Feeling- or Soul-Healing depending on whether or not the Divine Love is included.) TUB says our soul is experiential, coming about as a result of our indwelling spirit arriving and interacting with us - all a mind thing, so the soul being mind derived. Which it is not. Certainly the soul ‘evolves’ into being, but really it’s existential and is evolving its personalities into being, which gives us the feeling we are growing in truth through our feelings and gaining in understanding about that with our mind, but with all of ourselves and our life being driven by our soul. To believe you are the master or mistress of yourself and your life, that you can determine every aspect of it and of how you want to be, and then set to work using your will and mind to bring that about, ends in one eventually seeing the folly of such ways, for invariably at some point the obstacles become too great all to show you you are going the wrong way by looking to your mind alone, and that you have to stop and go back the other way using your feelings so as to get back in touch with your soul. Bonita, one of the TUB forum members who has an astounding grasp of the book, maintains that we don’t have a soulmate. That as there is no existential soul, and neither is the soul duplex like the Padgett Messages tell us - that it is not expressing the two personalities of itself into Creation which are destined to reunite at some point, the two soulmates living happily and lovingly ever after. She says that because the soul only starts its existence when we’re about six or seven, and all because of, and beginning with, our relationship with our indwelling spirit, that that is what the real soulmate union is, our permanent fusion with our adjuster becoming at-one with God’s spirit that is within us. For her and those people like her there is no true and perfect soulmate relationship to be had, you have it with your adjuster, so in effect with God, so it’s just all between you and the Father, and all in your mind as the adjuster indwells our higher mind. So like the Eastern philosophies that look to the ‘god within’ becoming ‘Enlightened’ and at-one with the Mind of God; it’s all really about sensing God’s spirit (the adjuster) within, and becoming united (fused) with it. So TUB’s version of the soul is really a more updated version of this Eastern philosophy based solely on mind-transcendence and not actually having anything to do with feeling-ascendence. (And that’s it!!!! I’ve just seen it, the obvious: that it’s ONLY with our feelings can we ascend, whereas with our mind we can transcend. And transcending gets us to the top of the sixth mansion world and no further (as The Padgett Messages tell us), whereas feeling-ascendence gets us all the way to Paradise. And in our negative, rebellious condition, mind transcendence is only moving deeper into the Rebellion, it is not actually healing oneself of it.) And so without our soulmate being another personality, without an eternal partner which whom we can share - and must share - all our experiences with so as to keep being able to fully express ourselves in Creation, we won’t be able to gain the most truth and understanding from life that we possibly can. Bonita and her ilk seem to believe you can live simply with God and that’s all you need, that really you don’t need anyone else; or if you do, not anyone as personally involved in your life as your soulmate would be. And as they believe there is no soulmate as in two personalities, so they don’t see the Mother and Father as two Soul Personalities who are of One Soul, and who are the Ones who created our soul in Their image, thereby making us be as They are, so creating our soul with two personalities - soulmates, as They are SoulMates. So for the ‘mind people’ the soul is not that important. It’s just something that happens as a consequence of our involvement with our indwelling spirit, presumably gaining in importance as that relationship grows. But it’s not the soul that is driving us into Creation; it is not our soul that is providing us with our true feelings from which we can uncover truth about it, our personality and God; it is not our soul that is of the image of God who is Soul. We are God’s ‘soul-children’, our soul being the most important part of us. Our soul being created by our Mother and Father who then bestow its two unique personalities on it. Our soul that is not named or numbered but known only to God. Our personality that is named and numbered so we can relate to other personalities in the Creation of Soul. So TUB is anti-soul, anti the truth of soul, which is what the Rebellion and Default is. We live in denial of our soul by using our mind to stop us feeling all the feelings our soul wants us to feel. We live denying ourselves the truth that would come from our soul through our feelings if we weren’t using our mind to dominate our experience. And so by living denying our soul so we live denying Soul, our Heavenly Mother and Father, which is what the Rebellion is: Don’t listen to Them, we know better. Don’t listen to God, your True Parents, you know better than Them, They’re stupid, having to do always what They say, you have Free Will, use it, apply your mind, get on with it, nothing’s stopping you, create your own reality using your mind, where there’s a will, using your mind, there’s a way, you don’t need Them or anyone else, you can do it all by yourself, you can work it out with your mind, your mind is the way to go, your mind is superior, using your mind you can be anyone your want, you can do anything you want to do and no one and nothing will stop you. Don’t listen to your Parents, they are idiots, listen to your own mind, it is the way, it knows, be the master or mistress of your own destiny. Life if what you make it with your mind, it’s mind over matter, don’t let your poxy old bad annoying feelings get in the way, get rid of them, override them, transcend them, bury them - DOMINATE THEM USING YOUR MIND. And TUB will help you do that. Liberty and Freedom - of the Mind! So are we, as TUB suggests, just like the creatures, of male and female simply to procreate, then as we start evolving our soul becoming less animal and more spirit and god-like; but again nothing like the full wonder of a woman and man coming together looking at life completely from differing perspectives and being able to live completely harmoniously in life understanding that you both NEED each other, that you CAN’T DO IT ALL BY YOURSELF, so thereby always maintaining a certain child-like humility, as opposed to believing you only need yourself and no one else as you have your indwelling spirit - and what more could you want, the mind and its superior ego sitting up there on its thrown fending off all challenges! So to go the mind-road is very limiting, for how much can you do with only yourself? To go the soul/feeling road is open and expansive and unlimited, for there is endless sharing of experiences to be had with your soulmate. And someone to love and feel loved by, which you can’t feel in the same way from and for your indwelling spirit, unless you are using a mind-contrived love, and one that’s based on false mind-derived feelings.
The TUB adherers also believe that because Jesus came and ended the Rebellion and Default, so the same applies to them. (But Jesus only terminated the Rebellious Evil Ones pertaining to the greater universe of Nebadon. He didn’t ‘heal’ the Rebellion and the Default on Earth. Nor did he show us the way to Heal it. That can only be done by the Avonal bestowal pair doing their Healing.) And that by believing in Jesus and doing as they believe he says we are to do as said in TUB, when one embraces his Spirit of Truth, then all ones negative, evil, sin, iniquity, problems and bad feelings go away. I don’t know how fast they go away, but like those people of the Padgett Messages who believe partaking of the Divine Love is all you need to do and all your sins and errors will mysteriously vanish, so too apparently will Jesus’ Spirit of Truth do the same. (So if you are living how TUB says and engaging Jesus’ S of T, together with longing for the Divine Love, does that mean all your wrongness, sins and errors will melt away twice as fast?) And just like the ‘Divine Love people’ the ‘TUB people’ when asked for real life experiences of this, don’t come forward with them. And I don’t understand why. I’ve asked them to share some, but no one has come forward. And I would think that if they really were doing any healing and were having such incredible experiences as their sins and errors just disappearing, surely that’s the first thing you be exclaiming on a forum so as to show other people that it is really happening. But such forums are strangely devoid of such personal healing or vanishing experiences, unless people are embarrassed to write about them - but somehow I don’t think so. And then compare their forum to the DLS forum which is full of our personal healing experiences, because: WE ARE DOING OUR HEALING! We have something to share. DLS does’t mork on about having to keep studying the book, having to keep applying your mind so you understand, always there being more to study, as if studying is the way to advance your soul and grow in truth. It’s too much like school, and look what good that did for so many of us. DLS is about getting on with it, get the basics about your Healing and BEGIN. There is plenty to study if that’s your type of thing, but ALL WHILST YOU ARE HEALING. It’s hands on, FEELINGS, it can’t be done with mind alone.
TUB also says some other weird things. According to people on the TUB forum it says mortals and spirits in the mansion worlds or higher aren’t allowed to communicate with each other. And so presumably the countless numbers of psychic experiences of people speaking with, listening to, seeing spirits, angels, nature spirits throughout history, are all those people’s mental delusions, things they are making up in their minds? And if that’s true, then humanity has got very fertile ‘other-worldly’ imagination. Over the course of my relationship with the ‘other world’ I have tried to look at what I call my speaking with spirits and the few encounters I’ve had with them in that light, that I’ve made such things up, that it’s all the creative work of my indwelling spirit, and it might be, I don’t see or hear the spirits that well, but so often things come to me that they say, I can sense their presences, and over time in speaking with my indwelling spirit I’ve been able to detect different vibrations in the personalities I’ve worked with. And all who I speak with have a different ‘feel’ to them, a different personality, they certainly don’t feel like they are coming from the ‘same place’. So for me, the spirits, angels and nature spirits, together with the Mother and Father, are all separate personalities I can relate to, as I also can with my indwelling spirit. And as none of these TUB people talk about such things, so you can’t discuss such experiences with them, so they are not open to anything from spirits and other ‘outside’ sources; and rightly so, because those sources won’t be limited to TUB, and might even confront, challenge and threaten their beloved understanding of TUB. And so they write-off the writings of James Padgett of those of a mad man, stuff he made up in his own mind and so isn’t true. And it staggers me that these people from TUB like Bonita who say they are followers of Jesus and are growing in truth and wanting only to do the Father’s will, can read all the Padgett Messages and not feel anything of any worth in them. That they can pass them off as meaningless twaddle - valueless, and of no help. Which they’d have to do, or else confront their rock solid mind beliefs in TUB. So I say thank God, and Jesus, for coming to James Padgett before the arrival of TUB. So those people who are a bit more feeling-open and not just wanting to close their feeling and truth-self off using their mind can relate to and embrace the true Jesus and the Celestial spirits rather than having to contrive another false Jesus like the Christian’s do for themselves. So the Jesus Bonita says she is following is not the Jesus of the PM, and I know which one I’d rather follow.
So I see TUB for whatever the reasons was given to us to be used either way: to help one with ones Healing, or to help one further advance ones wrongness. It has a lot of what I think and feel is correct and helpful information in it, like that about the adjuster, the Paradise Trinity, ascension, and the Rebellion and Default, and helps us understand more about Jesus and his life on Earth; but it’s not definitive, and completely adheres to the limitations and restrictions imposed on us by the Rebellion and Default. So it toes the line. So it should be used in conjunction with the PM, my writings that have come from my Healing, and any other peoples writing, insights and revelations that comes from their Healing.
DLS is in direct opposition to the strict TUB adherents. The Urantia Book, together with the Padgett Messages, together with every other religion and spiritual system, are still within, and could said to be products of, our rebellious ways. None of them shed enough light on our problems and how to Heal them. Together they are all useful, and the Padgett Messages at least contain the truths about longing for the Divine Love and longing for the Truth in general, but still not enough truth to step outside the Rebellion and Default. So to limit ones to them, even to combinations of them, is to still keep within the limitations and framework of the wrongness. So you might believe you are ascending, making progress, healing yourself, doing God’s Will, and to a very small degree this might be so, but not enough to actually Heal yourself of all that is wrong within you. They are all still about looking to ones mind for salvation instead of looking to ones Feelings. For as we know, which DLS reveals: the Truth is contained within our feelings, and you can’t access it within yourself through your mind. If you sincerely want to know the whole truth of yourself, your soul, God and everything else, then only through your feelings will you find it.
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