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Post by James on Jun 9, 2016 22:28:21 GMT 10
Having said I didn’t feel like posting anymore on the forum and that I’d confine my writing to my personal diaries, I badly cut my little finger which put me off writing altogether. It’s almost healed now and I’ve decided to post again starting a whole new board here about relationships. And most importantly - how to have them, and why they are so important, and how they relate to our spiritual growth.
My Healing has moved of late to come down to just focusing on my relationship with myself and Marion, that being, how I express myself to her, how I relate to her and how I relate to myself, and then to everyone else, nature, other spirit personalities and the Mother and Father.
My repressed bad feelings are not as all-consuming as they were, I still feel miserable, scared and angry, and all the rest, however they are mostly coming up now as a result of my inability to communicate, interact, connect with Marion, rather than just coming about because of every experience I’m having.
And I’m understanding more how really our spiritual growth, among other things, should primarily be focused on our relationships and how we are relating. For example: why did you say what you did in that interaction - do you know why you said it, can you feel why, was it an unconscious response or were you on the case specifically responding that way knowing completely what you were doing - what impact you wanted? And did you achieve the desired result; and if not, why not? And how do you feel having interacted: are you completely happy with it or where they lingering bad feelings about it - and if so, what were those, and have you brought them up (and if not, why not?), can you identify them, speak about them, seek the truth of them?
And in your interactions, do you really want to know the other person, are you very happy to listen to them; and can you respond to them from your feelings and not so much you mind? Do you really want to know yourself, can you easily express all you feel and think, and why do you want to say what you do?
And for people in an intimate relationship - do you share everything, do you speak about every thought, and more importantly, express EVERY feeling to each other? And if not - why not?
Marion is insistent that in our relationship we are to not hold anything back, to bring out absolutely every feeling, good or bad. And that when one or the other sees the other is not doing that, to stop and ask what’s going on - what are you feeling? She of course as I’ve said a million times being so much better at this that I am. Her focus in any relationship is getting to know the other person, all of which in turn helps her to get to know herself, which of course is what most people would probably say is obvious and what relationships are all about, however saying and knowing it is often very different to doing it, the doing of it completely retarded by our untrue state. If we’ve still got stuff to heal, then we’re still not fully and truly expressing all of ourself to the other person, so we’re not right, and won’t feel completely happy and loved as we still won’t be able to have a true interaction and relationship, so there’s still more work to be done. Our Healing being the healing of all our relationship and self-expression difficulties.
I used to think I was genuinely interested in the other person however my Healing has shown me otherwise. I hate the other person (as the other person is in my unconscious still mum, dad and Gran, and I hate them), don’t actually want to have a true and meaningful relationship, just want something in which I can get buy with, hide away in, not have to do too much, not be confronted, be accepted as I am in all my wrongness. I want to be able to talk without expressing feelings, just report and tell, make statements - It looks like it’s going to rain, I’d better bring in the washing. No feelings, and not really caring if Marion’s listening to me or not as I’m really just speaking to myself. Instead of something like: Oh shit it’s going to rain, directing myself to Marion making sure I am getting her attention and connecting (interacting) with her, then telling her I’m going to get the washing as I express my annoyance in the tone of my voice because she and I both know I JUST PUT IT OUT!
And it’s been very difficult having to admit that I am not the nice, kind and caring person I believed I was. That I am cut off and disconnected from everyone, myself included. That I live in a separated zone alone by myself putting on a front and deception that I am enjoying being with the other person. I don’t know how to be with the other person truly, I am only a product of my parenting and they didn’t want to know me, they only wanted someone they could talk at. They didn’t really care if I listened or not, they did it all, I was just there as part of the furniture for them to use. So I am in my relationship with Marion still just part of the furniture, seemingly happy to be talked to, seeming to listen, but not really there, sort of half-dead off in my mind wishing I was somewhere else.
There are now countless, tens of thousands of things wrong with myself that my Healing years have shown me. I am astounded at how wrong I have been whilst still being able to keep living - surely I should have disintegrated under the wrongness long ago? And now all these wrong things come down to how badly I express myself and relate in my relationships. My whole so-called ‘spiritual growth’ to this point, has really been about seeing the untruth of my relationships. I am wrong and evil in that I express and so interact rebelliously - against the truth of my own soul, and against God. I can’t have a true and loving relationship with myself, Marion, anyone else, or God. I don’t know how to, and I can’t make myself just do it properly, not even when Marion points out where I’m going wrong. All I can do is keep expressing my bad feelings and how being so bad when she points such things out to me makes me feel, whilst longing for the truth of why I am so wrong, knowing that as the truth comes to light - and thankfully it does - and as I bring out all my repressed feelings, so I am changing into how I should have been had I not been so messed around with.
No spiritual or religious system from what I understand focuses on trying to prefect ones self-expression involving the moment to moment scrutiny of ones relationships. And yet when you think about the spirits healing themselves with the Divine Love and eventually becoming Celestial, what is the singular most important part of their experience when they are healed - having the perfect relationship with their soulmate, then with other spirits and angels, and then with God. RELATIONSHIPS, that being what our lives in Creation are all about, for without them we don’t interact, so don’t experience, so don’t grow in truth, so don’t keep bringing our personality out, so don’t evolve our soul. And what would life be if it was just us, you by yourself without anyone to interact with? If you were stranded on a desert island with only an ant for company, how much would you value the relationship you had with that ant? If you were stopped from having any interactions, prevented from having any relationships in life, what would happen to you, how do you think you would feel? And what do our parents do to us, they prevent us from having true and loving relationships with them, ourselves, other people, nature and our pets, God - everything. They condition our relationships severely, corrupting them, thwarting our souls innate knowing of how we’d grow up and interact if we were truly loved and treated with the utmost respect.
And the terrible part we discover through our Healing is just how we were treated, we continue to treat ourselves, as we also treat others. So we are all mucked-up in our relationships even if we seem to get on famously together. And we won’t be un-mucked until we’ve completed our Healing.
So with this thread I am going to try and add specific examples of my inability to express and relate properly as they come again between Marion and I. And if you’d like to say anything too, please do, together with starting another thread on any other aspect to do with relating and relationships should you think it appropriate.
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Post by James on Jun 11, 2016 21:25:56 GMT 10
To uncover the truth of ourselves we can’t run away from our past - from our childhood relationships with our parents and carers, we have to work back through them.
I'm too scared to talk. Marion says Watt (a wattle bird) is on the doorhandle wanting a piece of bread thrown to him, and does anyone want to feed him, that ‘anyone’ being me. She didn’t want to disturb herself getting up to attend to him, and I was on the computer. I didn’t answer her, just grunted not really paying attention. She then picked me up on my lack of response to her, she expressing her annoyance at not having someone who always responds to her, who is always aware of what she is doing and saying and not someone who is too self-absorbed in other things that have nothing to do with our relationship. She also asked me why I didn’t respond. To which I responded with my usual refrain - I don’t know. However this time what I did feel was fear, I was scared of responding, that much I could feel. So why was I afraid?
And as I was longing for the truth of why, I then knew why, because I was expecting, as I am always expecting, a savage rejection from her to anything that I say. Had I said something, even if it was in response to her, I realised I was expecting her to say something like: SHUT UP!, SHUT UP - DON’T TALK, I DON’T WANT YOU TO TALK, I DON’T WANT TO HEAR YOU! Mum again.
So we talked about this as I tried to express more of my fear and then hurt and then anger and rage about how badly, how unlovingly, mum treated me. I could hear her words ringing in my ears, then harshly vibrating through my body, my whole being shitting itself and wanting to disappear. And then more questions: Why was she so hostile and so antagonistic toward me, and so much so that often I couldn’t open my mouth to talk, and so often that I am petrified of speaking always unconsciously expecting such a terrible reaction from her. And I know it might sound harsh, did my mother really yell so violently at me so much of the time, and to be honest I can’t remember, but obviously it was enough because if she hadn’t then I wouldn’t be feeling so scared of opening my mouth.
So I accept my feelings and what they are showing me. I just go with them, trying to bring up more when I can and see how the picture evolves. And it does, it’s amazing how it keeps growing, everyday I see more about myself and my relationship with my parents and everyone in my early life. So now I am working on accepting that I am very scared to talk, that I don’t like talking, that I want to talk but I’m always on edge as to what reaction I will get, and erring on the side of being harshly yelled at and unlovingly rejected instead of lovingly embraced making me feel they and everyone always wants to hear every word I want to say. To conceive of growing up never once feeling rejected is way beyond my minds capacity, I can’t begin to imagine it as I’ve got no basis to start with. Marion felt very loved by her Granny when she was young but only for a few years very early on when her parents lived with her and then when she came to live at their house. But it didn’t last long and from then on she’s known she wasn’t loved by her parents because she had her Granny’s love to compare to their no-love. I don’t feel I had any real love, all false pretence and hollow words of ‘I love you’ and a few quick pats on the head, but nothing else.
So now in all my interactions I keep saying to myself that I am very scared, scared of the other person yelling at me no matter what I say, just for opening my mouth, even if they are asking me to respond. And I’m trying to keep focused on how reticent I am at beginning an interaction, it’s far safer if the other person opens and invites or shows me they are not angry, then at least I have a chance of responding without being told to SHUT UP NOBODY WANTS TO LISTEN TO YOU.
So I’ve been slowly waking up to how this fear of speaking, fear of the reaction I will cause, has hamstrung all my communication and still does. And there’s about a million subtle aspects to it, too many for me to write, but all of which come up and I discuss with Marion. All of which shows us both how we need time, our Healing needs to take time so we can consistently work on ourselves and reveal the truth we need to see through our feelings, all so we can understand every little part of our wrongness and dysfunction in our relationships.
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Post by James on Jun 12, 2016 20:09:46 GMT 10
I want it all my own way!
They had it all their own way, and now I want it all my own way too. Marion smothered herself in her latest perfume, it was too much, no, I don’t want the smell in the air, the whole room full of it, I can’t get away, it’s not what I want, I don’t want any smells, just the fresh air. Mum put on her perfume, and it’s not that the perfume smelt bad, it was a lovely floral smell, but it’s that mum spent more time with her perfume, makeup, clothes, hair saying how good they all were and showing herself off to me, than she did paying attention to me. And it’s not even that I’m jealous of those things, it’s that I feel so hurt and unloved because they are more important to her than I am. I’m not the sweet smelling perfume, I’m not the good looking red lips and smart new Italian leather shoes. I’m something she doesn’t want, I stink, I don’t look good, I keep ‘the man’ away, for who wants to be lumbered with a young child that’s always demanding attention when you’ve got the very serious business of trying to be attractive to a man, being gay and carefree.
So I express my anger to Marion about the overwhelming smell, even though I am in conflict about it because I do actually like the scent, and I know Marion is not using the perfume to make herself more attractive, she’s using it because she loves all the smells and was never allowed to have such things as she was growing up. And I know I’m angry not actually with Marion but with mum again, and this time I can feel how much I wish I was able to have everything in life to suit me. I feel like I’m three with my powerful will surging into being, and I WANT EVERYTHING TO BE FOR ME AND AS I WANT IT TO BE. So I expect to be fully accepted, loved for being how I am, and not as it happened, always coming up against insurmountable obstacles in my parents who thwarted my will-expression making me turn my will against myself willing myself off in untrue directions.
So now in this Healing Experience I am back with them at three and this time around, fuck them, I am SUPER-WILL, and I am FORGING, and they are smashed out of the way, and I am through, and there on the other side are my loving people, parents and people who love and appreciate me for being exactly how I am, and people who would never dream of making me become something that I wasn’t, who would never force me, never stop me, never coerce me to their will. People who unconditionally love and accept me, even DEMANDING that I stay true to my will NO MATTER WHAT.
And I grow up fully expressing my will as God has created it to be expressed, blasting out into life in my smallness, mellowing out as I mature becoming sensitive to the needs of others and no longer still trying to satisfy my three year-old needs that were never fulfilled. I want to be a mature person, not a retarded three year-old in a fifty-five year-olds body. I want to be fully asserting my will being true to myself, true to my soul, and true to my Mother and Father.
And in the context of trying to have a good and loving relationship, how can I when I’m still the will-retarded young person? I’m still unconsciously banging my head against mum and dad the brick wall, still ragingly angry with their interference and stopping me having what I want and being how I want to be. To place all those demands on Marion or anyone else is not going to allow any relationship to flourish, it’s going to end up crushing it just as they crushed me, ending up making me have a thoroughly distorted unloving relationship as I had with them, should I be able to have one at all.
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Post by James on Jun 17, 2016 21:10:52 GMT 10
Expecting to be taken over I expect Marion to do all the expressing of feelings, even of my bad feelings. I hurt my little finger bending it awkwardly, and I said: “I hurt my finger”, without expressing how hurting it make me feel. And today I could then sense that I didn’t express any feelings because I am waiting for Marion to do that, this being something we’ve both come to see about myself and how I relate to her and everyone. And it’s taken me years to get to this point of being able to see it in the moment for myself. I expect Marion to react saying something like: Oh no, ouch, youch, or whatever acting as if in a way she had done it. I don’t say, Ouch I just twisted my little finger, owe it hurts, saying it with the full feeling of it hurting that I feel. I just make the statement, sort of feeding the other person by giving them something to express. And of course this is how it was for me, all I did was taken out of my hands, they did all the feeling expression. I just alerted them to the fact that I had a problem, that I’d hurt myself, and then they fussed on saying ouch, that’s not good; and Gran: Come here and I’ll rub it better for you. They did it all, I didn’t. So I’m an all but dead feelingless no-expression person... and how does that make me feel? And how can I have a loving relationship when I can’t fully express all I feel, expecting the other person to do it all for me?
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Post by samantha9 on Jun 18, 2016 0:08:18 GMT 10
I am exactly the same James, if I hurt myself I expect whoever is in my space to express it all for me and if they don't I feel real anger, even rage at them for being so unloving and not caring for me or about me hurting myself and I can remember as a child feeling happy that I had hurt myself because I received good feelings from Mum, caring responses and I felt cared about and I still expect and demand that now, all so unloving of me to put such demand and expectation on to others but it is what is programmed into me, and I do it with others, I do exactly what my parents did to me. I want to make it all better and show I am concerned instead of letting others feel how hurt they feel, what emotion in them triggered the painful event, they will never know all the time I am pandering to their pain and trying to take it away. I catch myself doing this and pull myself back from it now but its hard. I now realise that I am being as unloving as my parents were to me by taking away the opportunity to feel for others, trying to make it all better and deny anyone from feeling any pain.
The pain I feel when I am not attended to when I hurt myself is very intense, its pure rage inside of me at no one caring about how much pain I am in, I just hurt myself, doesn't anyone care!! I now understand that the demand and expectations I have for others to care about me and take all my pain away like Mum did for me is a very unloving demand coming out of me and projecting it onto others that they have to love and care for me, which of course they don't have to.
I love what you wrote there, I was just the same and it brought it all up in me and I can actually feel the rage and rejection I felt when I was not cared for, Thanks James.
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Post by James on Jun 18, 2016 18:57:09 GMT 10
I’m so passive about it compared to you Sam. I don’t get angry when they don’t express it, I’m too far gone, simply expecting they will do it. However now having read what you say, I am able to detect deeper within me that there is also anger there if the other person doesn’t play their role. Talk about being mixed up! I feel so demented so often by it all, all the conflicting bits, nothing is straightforward for me. And it would take a lot to let the other person show how hurt they are and not step in trying to make them feel better. Marion is so good at that now, but she too used to want to help. I agree that it goes against so much of how we’ve been trained believing we are being loving by helping in that way, when all we’re really doing is interfering as you say. I’m not too good on the psychology of it, it all gives me a headache, trying to put my mind this way to understand that, then back that way not trying to be the other person, not trying to interpret what they are thinking and feeling and going to do; and then acting upon what I make up, which isn’t even what they are doing, it all being myself playing games in my mind about them. Your post made me remember some truth that came up the other day about why I can’t be directly angry at mum and dad:
In the car I was wondering why I can’t easily express my anger at mum and dad. I can at things, and now even at Marion, but even when I know it’s really mum and dad with whom I’m angry, still it’s so hard to just direct it at them and feel it is them. Then I heard in my mind together with something of a memory of mum saying: “DON’T YOU BE ANGRY WITH ME! And then I knew, she told me not to be angry with her, it wasn’t worth it, she wouldn’t tolerate it, so I couldn’t, so I’ve had to be angry, if I could be at all, with everyone and everything else. So the truth does come - eventually. God it’s taken me years to finally be able to see why I can’t be straight out angry with them.
Also during the drive to Wonthaggi I was again feel very scared, so scared, terrified of everything - of everything not going right. I drove past the area where one of the women I like at the Bush Bank lives wondering where her house is. Then a series of imaginings went through my mind, as they do. I let them go on now, trying not to interfere with, edit or direct them, trying to just concentrate on all the feelings I feel no matter how weird the images are. I imagined knocking on the door of this woman’s house asking her for help, I was distraught, and she’d know what to do, that she’d willingly help me. Because Marion had been eaten by a dog while she was feeding the birds, the dog that comes and steals some of the bread suddenly turned on her biting her so badly she had died. Then our house was robbed of all Marion’s things and my computer. Then it even burnt down. I had nothing, this all happening while I was out shopping. I only had the car. Could she please help me? But it’s the feelings of feeling that everything had gone, nothing was left, everything I had was taken away and how devastated I felt, so alone, so unloved, nothing, no one to love me, no one to care about me, feeling so unloved, uncared about, so scared, and so scared that although bizarre this imagining, in my mind it could possibly happen so I should be prepared, I should even find out the address of this woman. And as I tried to express all my terror and fear and how scared and miserable I felt, again I could hear mum: “I’LL TAKE IT ALL AWAY, IF YOU DON’T STOP YOU KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN...” So once again being so scared of displeasing her and that at any moment all I like will be taken from me, it’s all her threats hanging over me all the time. Yet as I grew up, not being allowed to know it was her I was scared of and angry with, I had to move away from her in my mind attributing such fears to some mysterious outside force that is going to make all the bad things happen. So I’ve told myself, it’s not mum and dad that I’m sacred of and who made all the bad things happen, it’s become the mysterious, unpredictable world: the mad-dog, the burglar, the house burning down. Then the more I concentrated on feeling so scared of her and of life and feeling so miserable and so powerless to do anything about myself and my situation: that I can’t get away from her, can’t dominate her, can’t make her even into someone who loves me and doesn’t scare me, I then felt how it is all still there within me. I could feel every part of my Healing that has come to light, all the bad parts within me, all I’ve come to see about myself, all how bad it was for me when I was young and how I am it, and how being it, I’ve been it all the way through my life. I haven’t been someone who had it but then my childhood ended and so did all the bad stuff, it has all still been there ‘alive’ within me and I’ve just buried it and refused to look at it. So I know now even more so that it’s all there for myself, and for each of us to heal. But the part that is still eluding me is why is it so bad for me: what did my parents do that other parents didn’t do? Why am I such an outsider when surely other people’s parents yelled at and threatened and scared them, all about the same things, and yet they don’t seem to care, they get on and have a relatively successful life, even seemingly being able to have good and loving relationships with their parents right to the end. What was it in my relationships with my parents that has terrified me so much and made me come to understand that I hate everything about them and all they did? Was it just the shaking of me that I’ve been feeling of late, was that so bad that it has put the wind so far up me that I am so fucked. I don’t yet know for sure, more work to do. Then later that day when suddenly feeling anxious, I had to eat. (Having given up the chocolate I’m now eating extra sandwiches with baby spinach and rocket and chutney.) And as I was making my sandwiches, again trying to express and talk about feeling so anxious and what I was so worried about - scared of, again the words of mum came into my mind: “STOP CRYING! EAT YOUR FOOD. IF YOU DON’T STOP CRYING I’LL TAKE IT AWAY FROM YOU - EAT IT! AND EAT IT ALL!” So again more trauma associated with food, feeling scared that it will be taken away, and I’m not allowed to cry or else this other bad and even worse thing will happen. And I have to eat it all, and yes, I do at least like the food, so I want to stop crying and comfort myself by eating, and then she too will settle down and stop being horrible to me. And through my Healing I’ve seen, like not being able to be angry, I’ve also not been able to cry, and so no wonder I’m so distraught about it all. And when I say, ‘I hear her words in my mind’, it’s really Bob (my adjuster) replaying them to me in my mind. I don’t as such hear her voice like it was, but as I listen/remember to the words in my mind, I find I connect back to being with mum and how bad it was and how bad I felt, all of which I can then express more of. Marion doesn’t get these word/memory replays, but she isn’t blocked off to all that went on between her and her parents, she can remember it all and all how bad it was and how badly she felt. I am so shut off, and as Marion said today: “I can see that you even pride yourself on being able to stay with your mother and grandmother who you can’t stand, just so as to be able to say they don’t affect you, you’re not bothered by them. You didn’t have any nicer, loving alternative, and so as you only had them, then you’re showing how strong and tough you are by being able to be with the worst people you can and not let them get to you.” But they did get to me, only I’ve blocked that all out.
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Post by James on Jun 25, 2016 22:16:57 GMT 10
I'm watching the TV.
Again with Marion’s help - and again something we’ve been working on for ages, and again it’s taken so long because I find it so hard to define my feelings - to just feel what I’m feeling, particularly if it’s a newish feeling, and again it’s driven us mad going over and over this problem I have, and again I am so fed up with the whole business - I could see that I am perpetually watching the tv. It’s so bizarre, but I am. I sit on the couch and switch Marion on and watch the latest episode. I listen to her words for the duration of the show, then when she’s switched off - stops talking, I forget what I’ve been watching. Just like all those shitty stupid tv programs I watched during my childhood, all those stupid American shows, and all the times I sat and listen to Gran, sat and suffered listening to mum rage, sat and listen to the teachers at school droning on. I was always sitting watching the television. So I’m ‘a watcher’: I sat and watched my fish, I watch nature, I watch life go by, I watched myself having sex with my girlfriends, I go to the Bush Bank and turn the Bush Bank episode on and watch, even sort of watching myself participating, but really I’m not one of the actors in the tv, I’m on the outside only ever watching. And rarely do I come forward and engage, I have to wait until I am asked to, made to, forced to; so Marion has to engage me, other people have to do all the work of connecting with me, otherwise I seem content to just say nothing and be there watching and listening. And so once again, how fucked am in trying to have a relationship of any depth when I can’t come out and cross the line and be involved, always taking the back seat and passively watching, not expressing my feelings, and if anything, just mimicking the news reports telling the latest thing that happened but without any emotion or feeling. So I feel like I’m a dead bore, I don’t know why people seem to be nice to me, what’s the point, no one is home; and really I’m bored shitless with it all, I’ve seen the same bloody tv programs a million times, the same old news, nothing new ever happens that really grabs me - so what do I exist for, what is the point of me when I’m not a participator? And I feel so alone, so unloved, and no one cares, and even if they do notice what I’m really like, such as Marion does, what can she do, other than get cross and angry with me for not being someone who is coming out and meeting her halfway in the relationship, someone who demands that she does it all, it all being so unfair to her and unfair to me that I’m so shut out and shut off.
My rage has been up in me today, but I can’t rant it out, I can only passively talk about it, I can’t rage at the tv, what’s the point, it doesn’t give a toss, it doesn’t get upset, it just ignores me and carries on. I don’t exist so far as it is concerned, so far as it being my parents were as I didn’t really exist for them. They didn’t care, they were putting on the show, I was their captive audience and they didn’t require any show from me. I just had to be there with the tv permanently turned on to my mum-and-dad-channel, and I couldn’t turn it off. I can’t say, stuff that, I’m out of here, I’m sick of this shit, I don’t want to watch it anymore, I’m leaving, going off to have my own life, one in which I am a major participator. Nothing like that for poor little james.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 2, 2017 5:30:21 GMT 10
James,
Your watching TV analogy is one of the most pertinent descriptions I have read. (Gives the Reality TV idea a more profound meaning). I relate to that, just as you describe it. I have often observed that, 'detached from the event' feeling in me, like I'm watching the TV. Turn on the Marion channel or the family home channel and just watch. No need to get involved or feel anything about it and there's a tacit compliance that comes with the detachment feeling - just agree, or do whatever's needed to stop the TV being too loud when someone in front of you (on the TV channel) is asking for your involvement. It seems easy to just say an answer rather than involve yourself and include your feelings, - that could involve effort and commitment, anger and expression - and - a relationship with someone!
Thanks again James, for putting it out there into the world, for me (and others) to read and find our own comparisons and look to our own feelings about.
It seems that your Marion channel is changing a lot at present too. Being involved, if challenging, could be a good thing.
LOK11 (off to try and find my feelings)
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Post by James on Apr 3, 2017 21:11:28 GMT 10
Yeah, it's incredible how I can just keep stating things about things, and not involving my feelings. Marion says she's never met anyone like me - is that good or bad?? I come in from the garden and say it's warm out there or I saw this bird or the bird bowls needed filling, all just reporting, no feelings in it. She's always saying, yes, but how did you fell about it, or how did that make you feel, did you feel any feeling seeing those birds or about it being warm, surely you must have?
And I can see that I did, but I just internalise it all. At the time I feel my feeling of excitement at seeing that bird, and I might even say Wow in my mind, there is emotion there, but then by the time I get back inside it's all gone, I've moved on, no one wanted to know, they never got interested or excited in what I did, killing it all for me, so now I kill it in myself and don't share myself with her.
So I grew up learning to only talk about things I know something about, as if I'm always lecturing or informing, but never sharing what I feel about the thing. Feeling-dead in my self-expression, that's for sure.
And I have realised that I even like it that way, that my feelings and emotions have become my own secret inner world, that I don't even want to bring them out on purpose, because if I do, then they'll just get taken or counted and I'll have lost them, even being told that that's not right what I am feeling. So I withdrew, I was dreadfully introverted, scared shitless, and so inept at being able to cope socially. I can put on a show, and just agree with everyone else, and add my bit of fact, and seem to be part of it all, but really I'm not connecting emotionally at all.
And it's all very humiliating having to admit that I can't do it, that I'm a loser and failure and even stupid for not being able to express my feelings, but that too is all part of having to bring it out, having to face it, admit the failing, admit I am bad, admit and accept and just resign myself to the hopelessness of it.
And then I try and get angry and try and do it, trying to summons the will and desire to keep focused on all I say trying to remind myself to include what I'm feeling, to speak from my feelings, what am I feeling first, then the info; but I can't, as I can't do anything to break my patterns, so falling down into them yet again, trying to express how powerless and useless I feel not being able to do it.
And then having to accept as Marion points it out to me, how I can't relate properly, can't have a true relationship with her or anyone else, not even with myself, and that I don't know where to begin, as it just never happened. So how do you change yourself into being a new way, a way you've never been, a way you can't even relate to, it's like wanting to instantly speak a foreign language when you have no feeling for it.
It's hard having to accept my powerless in it, powerless to do anything to help myself, other than just keep struggling along as I am. But that too is all part of it, because we can't actually change ourselves when you get down to the bottom line of your parental programming, it's fixed, it's you, and only our soul and the Mother and Father can do when it's time to be done. So even that, having to realise I can't make myself be how I want to be, that I can only delude myself using my mind that I can, but really the truth of it is I can't, so I have to just keep on accepting myself as I am in my untrue state as there is nothing else I can do.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 3, 2017 22:06:42 GMT 10
OK, So I'll put on my Newbie Hat (in case I'm just saying dumb stuff and your critique is indeed welcome if I am).
What you say James, just sounds like you have not brought (or made) your relationship to be for two. It seems you have the feeling when you see the bird etc. and I assume, acknowledge it within yourself, but then, as you were never required to do previously in life, don't feel any attachment to share that feeling with Marion now (nor anyone else when you were young). It sounds like your life training has led you to 'brief moments' of feeling, then dismiss them, processed and done with, and carry on forward (with the information of it, if anyone should need to know and ask you).
Again I fully acknowledge that I know so little of what it is to feel, that maybe I'm just talking gibberish, but I can understand your description, for I "feel" the same way. With some consideration on it, I have not ever built a relationship for two, or three or four or more (when I consider my whole family and my children). I was much too afraid (not that I would have admitted it, as you seem to be able to James) to share my feelings about anything for fear of ridicule, of looking and being stupid or worse, arrogant. I guess it meant that, no matter what it was, I kept the feeling to myself.
I do remember, after learning at 18 about being adopted, that I couldn't really share it with anyone, how I felt - not my girlfriend at the time, not my adopted sibling and certainly not my parents, so everything just went inside for a long while until I went through it all myself. It meant though, now that you've prompted me, that I didn't, and learnt not to, share my feelings and ONLY I ever saw them. I didn't have to share them with anyone, nor indeed, feel I had anyone to share them with. So a feeling - good/bad/lustful/bored/happy/sad whatever - became a momentary acknowledgment and then continue on.
I have not considered staying with, or lingering in, a feeling until the passing of my (adoptive) parents. And now, with my Mum's passing seeming recent (and it's 18 months ago) and a lot of fondness and really deep feeling arising within me, I find myself here at your forum and reading your works and maybe it really is time for me to consider my repressed feelings. I still can't understand your desire to be angry about something in order to deal with it, nor your assertion that you can't change over time, but then maybe my perspective is still naive.
I would also welcome Sam's, anonymous' or other's comments who don't have the wonderful sounding board of Marion to guide them as you do James. I also welcome your and Marion's perspective to guide me. I don't yet feel the personal connection to ask God for Their personal attention (other than what bounces around in my consciousnesses and subconsciousness, as I ponder and write here).
Perhaps relationships are harder than we are taught to expect! Then also, maybe each of us has our own truth to find for ourselves.
L
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Post by James on Apr 4, 2017 22:05:42 GMT 10
My desire to be angry about something so I can deal with it, is just that I try and allow myself to be as angry as I feel when my anger comes up. It’s acknowledging that I feel angry to begin with, because I have that feeling, and instead of blocking it, to try and stay with it, expressing it whilst longing to see the truth of why I’m feeling it - just allowing myself to be as angry as I feel and not holding it in. As I wasn’t allowed to be angry, so I couldn’t easily and freely express it like some children are allowed and even encouraged to do, so it’s very difficult for me to allow myself to be angry. And slowly I’ve come to see the signs in me that I am angry (the deeper repressed anger), like I’ll get a stiffness and restlessness in my lower leg or foot, even when I think I don’t feel it, but it’s there, so my desire is to bring it up and be it as much as I can when I’m feeling it.
And by saying I can’t change over time, I can and I am and I have, but what I want to try and impress upon people setting out to do their Healing, is to keep focused always on the feelings, that we are all feelings, there are masses of them that comprise us, just as there masses of beliefs and behaviours resulting from them and keeping them in check. And that we’re not meant to use our minds to try and change ourselves, but we do change organically as we bring out all our repressed stuff. I wrote yesterday saying I feel like I can’t change my deepest problems, which is true, I can’t using my mind, however my soul can and is as I keep expressing all my yuk. I am pursing the theme that we have to become fully feeling conscious of our negative state, so many of our addictions and worst yuk will remain right to the end of our Healing before they change and are removed, all so as to keep putting pressure on us to keep bringing up all the deepest buried stuff. It is like draining the swamp of repressed feelings, and once they are out - and it does happen along the way, we do change, only so far more myself, it has been everything else that’s changed and not my three main bug-bears. So they are still obviously needed to keep the pressure on me.
When you feel bad LOK11, and really bad, and assuming you do want to express those feelings to someone, why not God? And do you want to express your yuk to someone, even if you can’t see them? Or do you want to just keep it all within, as in somehow just expressing it all to yourself? And I can relate to that, I wished I could just go away and work quietly and secretly on myself, heal myself, then suddenly come out all perfect with nothing to worry about. However as I was fucked up through relationships, so I have un-fuck myself through relationships.
I think from your posts that it’s good that at least you are prepared to look at yourself, to think about and see if you are connected to your feelings, so much of it all is about evolving an awareness, becoming self-aware, yet on the feelings level.
And the further I go, the more I know, as I can feel it now, that our feelings are our truth, the mind doesn’t have a clue. So I feel like I’m slowly becoming feelings, which means, just more aware of them, even though I still have difficulty expressing them, but I can feel my truth and my feelings as being the same, if you know what I mean, and then I have my mind and its thoughts separate.
And concerning that connection with God, or lack of, do you fear God in some way? Why don’t you feel like reaching out to Them asking Them for help? Do you think you have to feel God reaching out to your first? And do you long for the Divine Love? And how do you find that?
And might I suggest trying to take one feeling a day and working with it for as long as you can. So when you become aware of a bad feeling, to try and stay with it for as long as you can. Just to keep it up in you, express the emotions of it to the air if you can, but just keep it within you, allowing yourself to feel its intensity or lack of - whatever. And if it goes, try bringing it back again using your mind, putting yourself back in it. And if you are with other people whilst feeling it, just let it be ticking away in the background, with you focusing on it from time to time acknowledging it is there. And then yearning for the truth of it, when you remember. We have to ask, long, want to know what our feelings are trying to tell us about ourselves, without that desire you can have all the feelings you want expressing them all over the place and to everyone but it won’t do anything for you other than let off a bit of steam. And many people like that from what I’ve observed then use their feelings and their talking about them as a power tool to command attention and garner sympathy or whatever, but they are not wanting to uncover the hidden truth of themselves.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 5, 2017 7:31:11 GMT 10
WOW!
I am sorry that my vocabulary doesn't give me a better word or phase to express it!
Thank you!
I'm trying to let it all sink in and it's quite overwhelming!
L
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 8, 2017 22:57:18 GMT 10
What overwhelmed me, along with the sudden feeling of warmth down the back of my neck and down my back, like soft pins and needles (that I only ever felt before when someone called it Reiki), was the sudden recognition that I don't think I've actually trusted anyone AT ALL since my 18th birthday. Sure, I absorbed things and got on with life and I felt like I loved people, and now I'm not sure. I'm not sure I trusted anyone except me, not my parents, wife or children, not GOD, maybe (now that I think about it) not even me. I have to wonder whether all of my life since has been about the mitigation of the next hurt (bad feeling???) I still need to let it all sit with me some more while I feel, whatever I feel about it, but, maybe as you say, I'm willing to consider other possibilities and a new awareness. I have only ever acknowledged any feelings internally (is that in my mind?) but I don't believe I fear God, per se, but then I know I was indoctrinated to do so as a child at church.
Thanks again, so much for you insights and especially for sharing them here on the forum for me and for others to read and try to understand.
LOK11
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Post by James on Apr 10, 2017 10:30:20 GMT 10
That was a good insight LOK11 about not trusting anyone; and how did it make you feel? And how do you feel about possibly mitigating all your bad feelings? These are the sorts of questions that Marion constantly asks me, always wanting to know me more - what I feel about all I feel. And it’s been amazing that I can do deeper, which sometimes has been hard and has led to all sorts of other things that have unlocked and come up, and something it happens fast and whoosh deeper feelings all come rushing up.
And as it’s through our feelings that we can get to know ourselves, so I think we all have to get the point where we decide that we do want to seriously get to know all of ourselves, and particularly all the bad bits. And so start longing to know, and if you include God, to start asking God to help show you all the bad parts of yourself, by bringing up all your bad feelings.
My difficulty has been my not wanting to get to know myself - yuk, why would I want to feel bad and want to keep feeling bad so as to see why I’m feeling bad, because then I have to deal with all the bad stuff. Which means, face the truth about my unloving relationship with mum and dad, which potentially means having to confront them, and no way, I’m too scared of them, which I’ve also had to admit, accept and understand why. So why am I so scared of my own parents... and on it has gone from there.
On a personal note, looking back over my healing years I can now see that yes I have changed, and how I have, is, I’ve become progressively more self-aware about my negative state, and the changes have enabled me to go deeper and deeper into that state. So the more I’ve brought to light and expressed my anger, fear and misery, those feelings have lessened as they’ve shown me the truth of my wrongness. So as I’ve said, it’s all about uncovering out whole evil state, and not worrying about being right or true until that’s all done. So any real and true good feelings will only come once all the bad has come to light and come out.
Yesterday I was feeling very angry. Each night for the past two weeks at some point during the night I wake up feeling like I’ve got a black hole in the side of my left hip. It’s agony, however luckily relief usually comes as I roll over. I’ve tried to stay with the pain during the night, expressing it in my mind, but end up falling back off to sleep after I’ve rolled over because the pain has been too intense. Then during the day I feel a dull ache in my hip, but nothing that stops me walking, and lots of anger. So it’s an incredible experience feeling this hole in my hip giving rise to a good dose of anger each day, and all the things I’m angry about, and how I feel about having the ‘hole’, and so on. And to cap it off, yesterday on my walk, a lovely small water plant that’s trying to establish itself in the dam, got chewed down to almost nothing, depriving me of the beautiful thing I liked looking at each day seeing how much more it had grown. And I was so angry that yet again the thing I really like gets ruined, as soon as I single it out it gets mowed down to nothing, which is of course myself, as soon as focused on a good part of myself or had something good happen in my early life, I got mowed down, I was told to stop being happy, making me believe that I can’t have anything good, and nothing good will ever happen, and worse, which I saw yesterday about myself, that I believe if I focus on something or someone feeling good about it, then that’s its death nell, their very existence will be threatened if not ended. That I am such a horrible evil person causing everyone (my parents) so many problems that I shouldn’t exist. Or, if I have to exist, then stay out of the way, not do anything, and if anything, try to get some good feelings happening vicariously through other people. Other people can do all they want and feel good and happy about themselves, their lovely little water plants would all thrive and the ducks would leave them alone, and I can be happy seeing their plants, but I can’t be happy seeing my own plants. So I have to put myself aside, focus on trying to help other people to be happy, and not because I genuinely want them to be happy, but so I can be happy ‘through’ them. So I am selfish in my motives with other people trying to be nice to them, because it’s the only way and I can have any good feelings in life.
Marion said today that it suddenly dawned on her that she feels hated by everyone. She’s seen this before, but today it was complete, she is the Hated One, which is why she can’t go outside and have anything to do with anyone. Her parents hated her completely, even telling her that everyone else hated her too, even when her Granny loved her which she could feel, but her parents were too strong overriding such good feelings in her.
And I think that where Marion is were we all have to get to at some point in our Healing. Because in those parts of ourselves that our parents hated and tried to change, we all must feel we too are the Hated Ones. We’re the rejected ones, the hated ones, the unloved ones, all the bad things, because we all feel these things, even possibly feeling that’s all we feel, which is surely what we will feel when we get to the full truth our unloved state, because in it, we don’t feel loved. And not feeling loved means you feel hated.
And having declared that about herself, she said she felt good, as she keeps feeling better and better about herself, understanding that it’s what the Father wants for her, and as there’s nothing she can do about it other than keep accepting it, so she feels better and better about being in her yuk state because she’s expressing all the bad feelings about it out of her. She still feels bad overall about being alive, having to be in a situation and world she hates because she feels hated by it, but within that she feels increasingly better about herself as she’s no longer hating herself. And really that’s all that matters, loving yourself truly is what it’s all about, as it doesn’t matter what the world thinks of you.
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Post by samantha9 on Apr 10, 2017 19:24:35 GMT 10
Hi LOK11
you wrote me a letter in private and I have decided to answer you on the forum because what I am trying to do is keep it all very transparent so every one can read it, not hiding any truth so every part of me is open wide for all to read and respond as they wish. I feel now I want every part of me seen all the good and bad bits and then I can feel about it, all the shame, all the guilt, everything.
I am very happy to answer anything you want to talk about, if I feel its what I want to do, sometimes I don't want to talk to anyone, I just cant be bothered any more. Its all about how I am feeling and I then get to feel all those feelings that come up within me like - Oh no,LOK11 will think I am so rude not answering him, I have to keep him happy and keep him thinking I am a very nice person so I must answer him so he likes me. Its all how it was with Mum and Dad, keeping them happy and thinking good of me.
When I began writing on here I sometimes forgot that it was a forum and every one could read what I had wrote and at times when I remembered that it was all so open I would feel incredible guilt and shame at feeling this way and about what I have written, being so disrespectful of my parents and all I kept feeling was how incredible devastated they would feel if they read it, about how I truly feel. It showed me just how much I felt I had to repress how I truly felt during my forming years with them, I wasn't allowed to feel the feelings I felt I had to keep it all to myself, being totally locked into myself by my denied feelings and how free I would have been and felt to just let it all out, wow I can feel that now the freedom of truth, I wasn't allowed to accept those feelings that I was unhappy with them and that they were not the great parents they thought they were. I have had so much guilt to feel and posting on the forum helps me feel that and sometimes I feel so bad I want to erase every post in case they find out how I feel because they never knew and when I told them face to face they were broken about it and have since gone on to blame me for my Dads heart problems and his illness, I have been accused of breaking his heart and it is up to me to fix this damage I have created so being true has opened up a lie that had to be revealed to all of us even though Mum and Dad will never see it that way. They want their good old obeying daughter back, the beautiful loving girl they created to keep everyone happy and would never say a bad word about anyone, who would never tell the truth and keep everyone happy with keeping the truth hidden and it didn't matter how ill it made me throughout my life just as long as I kept the truth of how I felt hidden, the LIE made me incredibly ill all through my life and since posting and feeling my feelings as I do now, all of that has changed for me, I have healed myself of Lupus, Chronic Anaemia, ME, Depression and all the other pains I suffered all because of having to repress the truth. Since letting it all out I have never felt so free of illness and for three years now since joining the forum I have been free of every tablet I was on, not even a headache tablet because I know how to heal myself, through my feelings.
I have gone way of topic LOK11, but I will just go with what I want to say and how it comes up. I understand what you say about being a bit of a Voyeur on the site and knowing all about our healing before introducing yourself. Letting your self be vulnerable on here is a big step, we are so used to being safe with our feelings and keeping our dirty washing to our self but I feel so free when I put it all out for everyone to read, for me it is like a feeling of no longer having to hide anything about myself, I am safe to let it out but it hasn't been easy to be transparent with every one as my whole life has been about keeping my feelings hidden so people will accept me, now I am beginning to feel that I don't want anyone to accept me if they don't want truth and this is what's happened with all of my friends and my family. I now have no friends and very limited contact with family and am going through the biggest change that is with my parents and I am prepared to end that relationship to as it is going that way because they cant accept what I say about how I feel. My Dad wont see me anymore and writes to me occasionally to tell me of how his heart bleeds and breaks over what has happened and doesn't understand how it all came about, what has happened he says. I have told him over and over again and he wont accept it, that anything they did was wrong and I feel most parents feel this to, they are never in the wrong, they did a great job and brainwashed us children into thinking that too until we begin to wonder why we feel and have always felt so bad, since birth, and take on the blame.
I look at myself as being only 3 years old now since beginning my feeling healing, I am a three year old little girl feeling every thing I need to feel, allowing myself to do that to get back to a state of innocence and purity I should have been allowed to be as a three year old but was defiled by the pain, denial and repression of my parents and a whole line of fucked up ancestors, I am the result of all of that pain since the beginning of my line, the first parents, its so huge and I am crying as I write this because I feel that I had no choice in it all, I was just a kid taking it all on and sometimes I feel so angry with the first parents for going against God and making me suffer like this, I want to blame them and I do for all the pain I wasn't responsible for as a child, but what I do with that ingrained pain, that I am responsible for all the hurt I have caused the people that I have attracted into my pain, drawn them into my pain. I feel that no matter what anyone has done to me or how they have hurt me in my life, I have attracted them to me because we have a similar pain and a pain I need so that I can feel what I need to feel from that relationship they have all showed me what I have denied and repressed inside of me right from the first parents and all the way down my line and ending up with me having to heal it all.
LOK11 I know it all sounds a lot and so much to heal but from the moment I started my healing properly in this way, before this I was writing down all of my feelings but not doing it with Gods help and not going deep enough to bring about any understanding just writing a journal every day of how I felt, now and with Gods help I call upon God, my angels, Mary and Jesus and my whole healing band of spirits to help me heal. I want all the help that is available for me to do this so I call on them all and I do it with a feeling not so much verbal words, a longing that comes from my heart to them to help me open up to the truth, I use them to help me as they are my spirit family, my brothers and sisters and God being my Mother and Father and they want me to heal so I call on them with a feeling, a yearning, a longing and it works and it is so good to have that help available when feeling healing. Now they really feel like my true family and my physical family are my brothers and sisters even my physical Mum and Dad and my children are my brothers and sisters because God is the Mother and Father of the true us, our Souls that they created. I feel such a deep connection with them as my true parents especially at the moment because I have recently been feeling them so much more and feeling their love flow into me every night as I make time for our relationship, I really want to feel them close to me in my heart and the last few nights I have felt their love flow again which had stopped for me for a long time. I spent two hours in a deep connection with them and felt I was totally blown apart by them like my whole body became a funnel for their love and so many broken fragments came up for me to heal, I am still so overwhelmed with the feelings I have to feel that have come to light since receiving their love, so much still to go through. I have felt so much despair and hopelessness at what was shown to me like every denied feeling was a splinter of broken glass or maybe mirror shattering and blowing me apart, as I write this I am still seeing it all and I feel so much sadness at being so broken and damaged and the extent of it all. Gods love shows me the truth every time, there is never any covering it up, any deceit, any illusion, no making it all better for me like Mum and Dad did, hid all the truth from me all my life like it was so bad. Gods love shows me the truth so I know exactly where I am, there can be no confusion, no lies and no cover it all up.
I will stop there LOK11 I cant even remember what you asked me but I felt like a chat.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 10, 2017 23:02:18 GMT 10
Again.....WOW!
It's the masterclass is feelings with feedback from you two.....very humbling....feeling like a dumb Newbie again. It is quite remarkable to receive such wonderful, insightful instruction from you both on here (and probably Marion as well, in the background thinking there's another old-James type mind-led guy again).
James, how did it make me feel? - (the hard questions straight away again) - sad and a bit lost again. Not really angry or vindictive or torn. Mostly just sad that I'd gone that way and not even noticed until I was sitting here (reading one of your books) that it just hit me like a hammer.......ohh....of course. That's followed by the.....oh dear, bad feelings of.......so how many more people have I hurt while acting that way, loving others (well thinking I did), interacting with them, while not trusting anyone. I think I'll leave it sit some more and see what else I feel with it.
Sam, what a wonderfully eloquent way to answer my message. Your insight is also remarkable, leaving me feeling like the dumb Newbie yet again. You answered a heap of the questions I hadn't even resolved in my mind of how to ask you. Your "little chat" has given me a a whole heap of feelings to try and find the truth of in myself as has James' inspirations.
Thank you again for the support. LOK11
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Post by samantha9 on Apr 11, 2017 16:55:48 GMT 10
Its strange for me to have anyone ask me anything about what I am doing, no one is interested and the people around me, family, are not interested, they see the change in me and hate it. All of my friends that I use to have, when they see me now just look down when I am approaching or passing in the street, that happened to me last week when I was in town, a very good old friend saw me coming her way and we made eye contact and she looked down at her phone and passed me by. I no longer have a desire to be with them and they are repelled by me now and some of them I never really looked forward to seeing because it was just boring to me, more of the same ain they would pour out on me so I begun to live true to how I felt and stopped forcing myself to go and see them and I was getting emails, "Where are you Sam, are you ok, we haven't seen you in ages" I was no longer drawn to go and see them, the truth is I was never drawn to go and see them but now I was being true to how I felt.
I have had the same with Mum and Dad, they have asked me the same "why don't you come and see us any more" I have answered them in the same way, I am no longer drawn to go and see them, I no longer need them as well as explaining about the fear I have always felt from dad. I no longer have to be the dutiful daughter. I do have to be true to how I feel though. People now view me as being horrible and nasty, I have changed in a bad way no longer being the Sam who would do all she could to keep everyone happy before keeping herself happy. They all call being true to myself as being wrong, truth is wrong and that is what I have been taught all through my life, truth is something to fear and its bad and it hurts people. Truth can never be any of that, all that hurts is the lie and pain and denied feelings that truth reveals in us all, truth is beautiful and it heals and sets us free. I have felt the beauty of truth and when I am true to how I feel, God the feeling is so liberating, it empties me out, there is no hiding, there is nothing to keep inside of me to fester, it is all out there, out of me so I am empty and pure inside with no yuk of denied and supressed feelings inside me. Truth opens me up to love and it is something that I can actually feel and I feel so sad and so much compassion for the child that was taught to lie and that was good because it keeps everyone happy not being aware of the truth because it will hurt them but all of those lies were stored within me and I was very ill.
Since your questions I have realised just how denied I still am and cant see this ever changing, no one wanting to hear anything I have to say, even if they ask me, if I give them truth when the ask, they don't want to hear me. My kids ask me things and I ask them back, "How does it make you feel?" they get all stressed with me and say oh here you go again Mum with that emotions stuff, but I want them to work it all out themselves and at least have the formula for doing that so maybe one day when they have had enough of pain and denial they will know what to do to turn it all around and I have actually heard my daughter asking her friends "How does it make you feel" so it is in them but they want quick fixes, me telling them the answers instead of working it out for themselves. They don't want to hear me.
I can now see the amount of denial I have felt from them all unless I am locked into some sort of barter with them of playing up to their addictions, giving them what they want to hear and that wont happen from me now. I can see how untrue all of my relationships have been based on lying to keep each other happy or with-holding the truth which is all living untrue and people want that from me and if I don't give them what they want I am denied, rejected, unwanted, I have change for the worst, where has our good little Sam gone, she's having a break down. If I am not how they want me to be, pleasing them, they don't want me and this is how it was as a child and it is playing out for me in every relationship for me to see. My true self, when I am healed and true will not be wanted, it wasn't wanted as a child so they made me into someone they could love, someone just like them with all of their problems and pains and they defiled the truth and purity of my true self until I never knew it even existed and that parent created Sam is the Sam they all want, the lie. Now I am healing myself away from that lie, they are rejecting me out of existence once again, as they did when I was a child and blaming me for the cause of splitting the family apart because I am not the child they created, they want me to pull myself together and stop hurting them. All showing me how the child is to blame for making the parents feel bad and the guilt the parents lay on the child for ever going against the parent, its an insidious bribe inbuilt into me that I am to never upset them or they will withdraw their 'love'.
I am really understanding more about how Gods Law of Attraction works to heal us. Every one of my relationships have been showing me how much I was denied as a child and repressed the pain of that denial and it is all around me now and building in intensity, slapping me in the face with the truth of how it was, complete denial of my true self, of any truth I had in me. It makes me want to cry at what I could have been if my true self had been nurtured and loved and brought out into creation but that can not be on earth until healed parents have pure children and keep them that way all being so hard in an unhealed, unloving world. Our Global injury is the denial of truth and always has been, the refusal to accept and feel the pain of our denied and repressed childhood feelings.
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Post by James on Apr 11, 2017 23:05:29 GMT 10
I love all you've written Sam. I want to reply more, but I'm too tired and I want to read over what you've written again, but then I have to work tomorrow, so soon... Love James.
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Post by samantha9 on Apr 12, 2017 3:51:17 GMT 10
Its fine James I wrote a lot and it has really helped me see the total and utter magnitude of how denied I have been so went on to deny myself. It helps to spew it all out sometimes. The magnitude of the denial of the feminine aspect of humanity, our feelings, its global and I have only just felt that and I feel very small in that if the whole world is against the feminine aspect of feelings, which it is. It feels like little me and the rest of the world. Huge stuff when you see it so Globally.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 13, 2017 22:31:10 GMT 10
I'm really sorry if this is a dumb, naive question, but why do have to apportion blame to your parents? Once you've defined what they did to you and how that hurt your, denied you, ostracized you, dis-empowered you or whatever, why do you (as it seems to me to read, on here) hold on to that still? Once you've found the truth of that, why does it seem to still cling to you so much that you have to write it, here even? Have you really found the truth of it all if you haven't let go of it?
I'm sorry of my questions seem dumb, but I'm trying to understand your healing and why I feel different right now. Maybe I'm just terribly apathetic and detached from reality from the initial hurt that I felt from my parents, but, having assessed (and I still think, mostly in my head, but maybe in my feelings as well) the pain that my parents caused me, understood (found the truth of maybe, I don't know) why they did it and how that felt for me, I just let it - the hurt, go. It became only a memory/feeling that I had had, could associate with, but that no longer hurt or was attached to me.
Sam, once that feeling became part of 'me', when I would speak to my dying mother, about what I thought and felt, it hurt a little that (I recognized) she had had to do these things in herself, and thus to me (as she truly thought, or believed, best for us all), but that was gone, and done, (and could not be undone), and so, should just be accepted as part of this life experience/history/me and go on to the next thing.
Again sorry if these are dumb relationship questions from a newbie, just starting, but this is the way I feel it, so I thought it best to write it here.
Love (well, what I know of it) LOK11
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Post by samantha9 on Apr 14, 2017 3:20:27 GMT 10
Its not a dumb question and its one I have been asked before, that I should move on and when I am living in blame I will never get out of it but for me I have to feel the truth of how I feel about them and what I had to deny emotionally as a child and if it is blame then it is blame that I have to feel, to its fullest, to its emotional end. My parents were my first teachers within my environment, they told me what to do, how to be,they made choices and decisions for me, they took my will and replaced it with theirs and forced me to deny myself, my wants and needs. To me now it doesn't feel like blame so much but truth, it happened, this is the truth of how it was and I have to feel all the anger and pain that I wasn't allowed to express then, every feeling I couldn't express I now can as an adult and when you go through that pain that is stored up inside your soul and when you feel it to its full emotional core it all takes you to the same place, your childhood. My feelings have taken me back there every time to the cause of all of my pain and suffering which is my denied and repressed childhood feelings stuffed so far away inside me that until I begun healing through my feelings I never even was aware that I had most of them.
I feel that my false, parent created, untrue self has to be faced fully to be broken down and deconstructed and all the time I am still having an untrue "Loving" relationship with my parents, I will never live true, I have lived so scared of hurting them so I continued to be the me they created when this is not who I am. I am still trying to please them so they will still love me. I am lying to them and to me by continuing to pretend they were great parents, and I can no longer pretend, I have to be true to how I feel when I feel it and that does mean that my relationship with them has gradually changed as I feel the truth of the untruth that was our relationship. I go through blame, anger, rage, shame, huge guilt at feeling this way, so many emotions flood through me as I feel all of my denied feelings from my repressed childhood, the ones mum and dad didn't want me to feel or express. It has made my life untrue and when you feel the depths of that and how it has effected your life, wow, so much wasted time living in that untruth that was taught to me by my first teachers, the ones I trusted and loved.
The reason why our feeling healing goes on and on LOK11 is because it is no quick fix, there are so many aspects to each emotion it isn't like just feeling it once and its all gone, it took me 49 years to get this fucked up and its going to take time to have the truth of it all revealed through my feelings and I have not got to the truth of it all yet, there is so much to feel through every day and I still don't know the truth of it, it comes up in bits and pieces and so much in my every day life triggers more feelings for me and when I have felt it all out of me emotionally, and it is a very intense emotional process for me, they I will not attract those triggers into my life any more and I will no longer feel bad about that subject, its a long haul and it is my life is about now, I desire my healing more than anything else in my life, I want to know myself as God created me to be, not how my parents created me to be.
I feel that if we are truly going to go into this whole heartedly and in all truth then we have to be prepared to lose our friends and family and will be repelled by those people that still want us to live untrue, we wont want to be around them, at least that is how it has happened for me, as my soul condition is changing, everything around me changes and I have found this a truth because as I heal different aspects of myself I am no longer attracted to those things. As we stop being the good children our parents created us to be we no longer attract them to us, my parents don't want me to live true, they want their old daughter back the way they created her but I am now healing myself away from their creation, that façade is breaking down and they no longer understand me or who I am but I am understanding me, for the first time and through knowing myself I am also getting to know God.
You say, as I have heard from many others, you just let the pain go that you felt from your parents, but where does it go LOK11. It doesn't go anywhere but still inside you, It cant escape from your soul until it has been felt by an emotional feeling process, it takes time to get there but when you do stop denying it all the grief comes up. We are all very good at thinking we have forgiven but forgiveness can only be done by an emotional feeling process, we have to go into what it is we are forgiving these people for and until we have felt all that pain we can not truly forgive I feel. My mum says to me, "Sam why cant you just forgive and let it go" those are only empty words to me blowing off into the wind, they mean nothing because the bad feelings have not gone anywhere, they are still inside of me hurting me, ruining my life in such an unconscious way, I am making my choices and decisions on these painful emotions from childhood and it is all of these painful feelings that have to be emotionally felt for me to truly forgive and let go. I truly feel that unless we have done this process of feeling healing the pain, it is still inside us and our mind is keeping us well away from it, still locked into denial of our childhood repression just like our mum and dad would like it to be, well away from our awareness.
I feel that our parents have made sure we feel guilty any time we go against their will in any way. We feel bad for them that we are feeling all of these things about them and they are never to be the ones to blame it is us, the children who are to blame and how dare we go against them. We are scared of ever going against them because that will mean we will feel the withdrawal of their love and as adults we still feel this so we blame ourselves as they did, not them. How can innocent children be to blame when we learnt all we know from our parents. We are still not wanting to feel the truth that we were not loved how we needed to be loved by them so would not dream of blaming them or bringing up the truth because we don't want them to feel bad no matter how bad they have made us feel. For things to ever change parents need to become aware of their own childhood denial and repression and the truth of how unloved they truly felt. Now, when my parents ask me questions I tell them the truth about how I feel and they feel pain from my answer, if they ask me I will only answer in truth, I have to for my own healing and the desire to be true and it has caused a huge rift in our relationship as the truth exposes all the lies and my parents don't want to know. They have stopped asking.
I cant help but see the manifestations of what us as parents have created in our children, our children are the result of everything we wanted them to be, good and bad. Its not blame but truth and my children will remind me of that everyday and I have to look to my own emotions first when they do things I don't like, what is it in me that created that in them and what ever they bring me I see it in me, they are a perfect second chance for us to heal and see it all playing out, what we have done to them and as I have healed things in me and found the truth of them, I then see a change in my children.. I don't have to do anything to change them I only have to feel my feelings and that changes me. Its amazing.
I have a long way to go LOK11 to work through all of the mind control created by my parents and I am not to blame for that, for what was put into me by them as I was an innocent child, all of their denied feelings, but I am to blame for what I do with that pain and how I have hurt people because of it. Its the same for my parents, they were not to blame for what was done to them as innocent children being overpowered by their parents but they are to blame for what they did with that pain that hurt others especially their children.
I am still in the thick of it all LOK11 and I don't ever think your questions are dumb, thank you for asking me how I feel about things.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 14, 2017 7:43:15 GMT 10
I'm really sorry if this is a dumb, naive question, but why do have to apportion blame to your parents? Once you've defined what they did to you and how that hurt you, denied you, ostracized you, dis-empowered you or whatever, why do you (as it seems to me to read, on here) hold on to that still? Once you've found the truth of that, why does it seem to still cling to you so much that you have to write it, here even? Have you really found the truth of it all if you haven't let go of it?
I'm sorry if my questions seem dumb, but I'm trying to understand your healing and why I feel different right now. Maybe I'm just terribly apathetic and detached from reality from the initial hurt that I felt from my parents, but, having assessed (and I still think, mostly in my head, but maybe in my feelings as well) the pain that my parents caused me, understood (found the truth of maybe, I don't know) why they did it and how that felt for me, I just let it - the hurt, go. It became only a memory/feeling that I had had, could associate with, but that no longer hurt or was attached to me.
Sam, once that feeling became part of 'me', when I would speak to my dying mother, about what I thought and felt, it hurt a little that (I recognized) she had had to do these things in herself, and thus to me (as she truly thought, or believed, best for us all), but that was gone, and done, (and could not be undone), and so, should just be accepted as part of this life experience/history/me and go on to the next thing. Thanks I really appreciate your answer Sam and indeed I'd appreciate your answer James, if it has different nuances to what Sam wrote. I'm trying to understand whether what I feel is apathy, brought about by my repression of the hurt and pain that I felt about my parents, particularly my Mum, or whether, what I feel is acceptance (not sure if that's the word I want to use). I don't have bad feelings about it anymore. I didn't know what feeling healing was (maybe I still don't) but I felt the pain and the anger and how that affected me and who/what that meant I was, and then how I felt about it all - not just my early childhood, but right up to becoming an adult. Once I'd come to know what and how I felt about that, I just let it go. I couldn't get angry about that because it didn't hurt anymore. I could still get angry about new things but not so much about my childhood (well, what I thought were the lies of it). I'm trying to understand my apathy feelings now. While I feel certain things are important and I invest my time into them, I don't feel passionately about anything much at all anymore, well, not like I used to when I was younger. The more things I go through and understand The (my?) truth of, the less I feel emotional or passionate about. That's not to say I don't cry or feel hurt, but it is often for people or situations that are far away from me or historical. I can feel an outpouring of love (well, what I know as love) for someone far away or past in war or angst. Maybe that's compassion rather than love...... Does this detachment, maybe my earlier observation that I don't think I really trust anyone else at all, since my childhood, prevent me from - or assist me with - delivering truth to any relationship or interaction with anyone I encounter? Can you have any relationship with anyone if you don't trust? I guess that's why I've been led here. Find what will heal me some more and provide me truth. Find out if I can do truth!! I think I can and I certainly do much more than I ever did - closer to now to how I was back when I was a child, but what really is my truth........ And maybe that's the key part of it - it's actually different for everyone. My truth is only for me.......and your's for you etc. etc. You talked about your children Sam. What you said resonates with me and is one of the things that I do feel about. I have always felt they were showing me errors in what I was doing, from their conception and growth onward, and maybe now I am understanding that better. Again, thank you guys for your interaction and sharing your feelings.
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 14, 2017 8:09:04 GMT 10
....You say, as I have heard from many others, you just let the pain go that you felt from your parents, but where does it go LOK11. It doesn't go anywhere but still inside you, It cant escape from your soul until it has been felt by an emotional feeling process, it takes time to get there but when you do stop denying it all the grief comes up. We are all very good at thinking we have forgiven but forgiveness can only be done by an emotional feeling process, we have to go into what it is we are forgiving these people for and until we have felt all that pain we can not truly forgive I feel. My mum says to me, "Sam why cant you just forgive and let it go" those are only empty words to me blowing off into the wind, they mean nothing because the bad feelings have not gone anywhere, they are still inside of me hurting me, ruining my life in such an unconscious way, I am making my choices and decisions on these painful emotions from childhood and it is all of these painful feelings that have to be emotionally felt for me to truly forgive and let go. I truly feel that unless we have done this process of feeling healing the pain, it is still inside us and our mind is keeping us well away from it, still locked into denial of our childhood repression just like our mum and dad would like it to be, well away from our awareness. I feel that is a great truth Sam. I didn't have names to put on my feelings and understandings that I might now call feeling healing, but I felt I had to "do" all the hurt at the time to come to know it as part of me.....part of my soul if you like. (I am new to using the terms, because, for me, they are still very attached to a religious mentality which reviles me and I left in my past.) Forgiveness requires this! And, from my limited observations, frees us. You ask where it's gone....I don't know, but I feel it's gone somewhere. I also feel James could probably get me the appropriate Technical answer if it's important to know. I guess my answer is...I no longer feel it as a hurt in me. It's the same as actually forgiving anyone for anything....ever. We are all prone to say the forgive words, but actually doing it requires much more effort and dedication to do so. Just my 2c worth (sorry, 2p worth for UK viewers) - today's humour!
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Post by James on Apr 15, 2017 21:48:43 GMT 10
I want to respond to your post on the 13, LOK11, sorry for leaving it a bit late, and I agree with Sam that they are not dumb questions, and in fact are very important ones, particularly I think for many people wanting to start doing their Healing, and even for some of us who’ve been doing it for a long time, such as myself.
LOK11 said: “why do you (as it seems to me to read, on here) hold on to that still? Once you've found the truth of that, why does it seem to still cling to you so much that you have to write it, here even? Have you really found the truth of it all if you haven't let go of it?”, and I used to say that a lot to Marion. Why after all these years and all the truth you’ve seen, do you keep feeling the same old bad things? And now I know for myself, just as Sam said, just as Marion would say to me, it’s because there is still more to feel, and until you’ve felt it all, even if it’s the same bad feelings, time and time again; until you’ve accepted and expressed and fully felt it all, then those feelings can’t reveal the truth to you that they are meant to. And also as Sam said, there’s a lot of truth we’re to see about ourselves, seven whole mansion worlds worth for starters, and so it’s possible those same bad feelings will keep coming up about the same things for seven whole mansion worlds worth.
My initial feeling reading your post LOK11 was you are just being to Sam what she is detesting in her parents. You are effectively saying: no Sam, you are wrong - your feelings are wrong. You must stop feeling them, you’ve seen the truth so stop carry on with all that... Yet who is to judge what seeing the truth means, and how much truth there is to see? So that then leads me to ask you LOK11: why don’t you want to Sam to carry on with it, why don’t you just want to leave it up to her to do what she feels is best for herself? Why do you want to try and control her, why do you want to close her feelings down, why do you want to prevent her from uncovering the truth of her yuk, when all she is doing is trying her hardest to express them, going against such programming? Do you want her to remain in her untrue, false, tortured, evil state? Does this bring up any bad feelings for you?
My brother saw my father on his death-bed and they agreed no hard feelings, things weren’t prefect, but they weren’t that bad either, so let’s forgive each other, and everything will be okay. Dad can die happy in his clear conscience with my brother; my brother can carry on praying for the Divine Love believing he has done his healing by forgiving dad, and presumably later mum, too, before she died. It’s all so easy, just use your mind, once again, to put yourself out of your misery. Use your mind to shut down and block it all off, all so you don’t have to deal with the real deeper pain, that pain that is likely to take years of really hard daily work to bring up and out of you.
So I think this will prevent a lot of people from wanting to go with their feelings deeper into themselves. And then I was thinking, well, if someone is that way, and yet does sincerely want to do their Healing, how will they get over that first hurdle, that major controlling aspect of their mind? And all I can think of, is, if they are really serious, then they will just have to start with the first bad feeling they feel - any bad feeling, and focus on it, and express all they feel and all it’s making them feel, all whilst longing for the truth, and just see what happens. And not to worry about the theory, all the whys and wherefores, just to start one little bad feeling step at a time. So LOK11, have you done that yet with one little bad feeling - and if so, what do you feel about posting your experience with it. I think you can go on talking about the Healing forever, and if you want to do that, well that’s okay too, however if you do want to do it, then you’ve got to start somewhere.
And then I thought, further reading both of your posts and comments, that I am no better than you LOK11, I completely relate to you, I put, and in some ways, still put, that pressure on myself: But I’ve seen the truth, and no more truth seems to come, and no more bad feelings come either, I long and beg the Mother and Father to bring them up if they are still within me, yet nothing is happening... but it is happening, it’s just not happening in the way that I think or want it to happen. Then I realise I am attending to other bad feelings, just not the ones I think I should be attending to. So possibly LOK11, for you it’s not so much worrying whether or not there are more of what you’ve already felt, but looking to see what new bad feelings you might be feeling. And in time if deeper aspects or more of those older ones are to come up, no doubt they will.
And then finally, it’s also been playing on my mind, so I’ll put this out there too, and I don’t know if it specifically applies to you LOK11; but it might simply be that you are not to begin your Healing in earnest, that you are just to familiarise yourself with it, why you need to do it, what it even involves by questioning others who are doing it, but that you will have other things that need doing first, other spiritual work even, and that later in your life, or even possibly in spirit, is when you’ll be able to move deeper into your Healing, then being able to apply yourself to what needs to be done. However, as I said, really I’m just saying this generally, and I’d be interested to see how you feel and what you think about it LOK11.
And please keep asking your questions, none of them are naive or dumb - how can one have a dumb or naive question when it’s to do with trying to uncover the truth of oneself or trying to understand all this stuff? And I’m sure it’s the same for Sam, but it doesn’t matter how much you go over even the most basic parts of it, there is always more for you to see about it and yourself because you’re always growing and so seeing things in a new light. Which is the great part about it, because it is always changing, evolving and so never dull, even when you’re bored to tears with your own yuk.
And Sam, as I said the other day, I loved all you said, it’s so good; and it makes me want to ask your parents: Why aren’t you interested in your child, why don’t you at least read a book by Alice, why can’t you bend a little, why can’t you BREAK! - give in, give up the fight, it’s a losing battle! Your own daughter is trying to help you see the truth of yourselves, what could be so bad about that, don’t you want to be free of your PAIN? Which I’m happy to say, is myself being the same as how LOK11, not accepting them as they are, not allowing them to keep going on rejecting and unloving you if that’s how they want to be... Always, I too am trying to control: why, why, why --- why doesn’t the whole world just do as I say, and then I’d be able to live happily in it! And I wouldn’t have any more bad feelings to feel!
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Post by LOK11 on Apr 15, 2017 23:03:12 GMT 10
Thanks James,
And thanks for having the fortitude to hold on until you were ready to reply with all you wanted to say. It all makes sense to me. ALL OF IT! I don't want to stop Sam or stop you in the way you described, however, in saying that, I do have difficulty in watching another suffer. It's the compassion thing I was trying (poorly) to articulate earlier. Watching another suffer makes me feel inadequate. There's something I could/should have done to prevent it or mediate it and usually I will feel like it's my fault. I didn't do (or worse, I did do) whatever the cause of the pain is. When I ponder that and look for the truth behind that in the terms I'm learning on here, I end up with confusion as to who was the cause. For if my parents lied to me, right to my face and I could see they were in pain, but they said nothing was wrong and told me it was alright and yet it clearly was not, then whose fault was it......mine? I can feel and understand that quite clearly, but I don't feel the attachment that you and Sam particularly describe to these feelings and their pain. Was I lucky with an easier to release childhood ( remembering I still have another one to go with my natural parents yet). Have I really released all of that hurt from childhood? I know there are more things in me to find the truth of, in time, but they don't seem to be for now and I don't have the anger that seems to strangle you as you push these things from yourself. For me, there were bad things, there were reasons for them that I was happy with the truth of, and relinquished from me. Maybe as I said, it's personal and different for everyone or maybe, as you said James, I have a whole collection more to do when I meet my soulmate proper, (seems odd to say that at 51 but in the timeframes that we talk around here.................just a blip of time). Regardless, that set of pain is no longer part of what I feel pain about and of what I feel I need to find the truth of.
Again, thank you all for your support and help and fortitude to put it up here, for I will ask more questions, for I am that type of guy, trained to be mind centered and mind driven but not devoid of my feelings, just out of touch maybe........... Inquiring, lacking in faith, needing to know and understand the technical intricacies or reasons, yet not adverse to change.............just find it hard.
I just re-read your post James, It still all makes sense to me. I don't want to prevent you or Sam or Marion from your truth, I just feel like (maybe when I was younger) sometimes , someone to shield you, for just a moment, from the barrage, from the onslaught of the pain could allow you to prepare yourself for accepting it when it arrives. Symbolism, just dumb shit, I don't know. I don't yet understand where some of the stuff inside me comes from. I'm finally trying to just write what I feel. The angst around me seems as palpable as you and Sam describe but it isn't from my parents, it's from all the massive pain that I have inflicted upon others. That feels like my burden and I feel completely useless at resolving any of it so I can only seek the truth of it. L
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